People Going to Beech Creek tomorrow.

[JLEllison]

In the future, you should ask what the people you may be going to the river with have paddled in the past, not what type of boat they are in. You might find out that theyre more than qualified to be paddling what you're running. Thank you for making the decision that I am not qualified to run a creek based on the wear I put on my last creek boat.
James

[Benji]

Man that is lame! James I would of gladly shown you down Beech had I not been locked
down at work, im sure a guy who triple crowns the Green, runs Overflow, Nanty cascades, and several other SE steepies could tackle little ole Beech Creek in a playboat.( my buddy T.R. did it in a playboat a couple years back and was fine!)

[Flapjack]

Oh, to want to join the bretherin of the Breech, you must use the dark forces to break the boundries set forth, by the supreme boaters, who watch over you. But if your that good go fire it up you don't need anyone.

[Fish]

Man, I've been on both sides of this stuff. It sucks bad for someone to say "no" but it also seriously sucks to have to tell someone "no." Sometimes, it ain't that they know you can't handle it, it may be just that they don't know you and so it's a big question mark. I know a lot of people who don't want to paddle the steeps with anyone they don't already know. That's not me, but I respect their decision. Entire group gets involved if one person gets in trouble, so it ain't a decision to make lightly, especially on a remote creek like Beech. I think the guys on Beech yesterday had the added issue of a very late start. Hell, I've run it 4 times before, and I probably would have declined an invite, even if I'd have gotten one. Any slowdowns with that late a launch and you're camping in the rain without a tent and I've had my quota on that.

I wasn't there, so I don't know if the decision was fair or not - just sharing some of my perspective. Hope you got to get on something good today James while I'm working.

- Fish

[Benji]

Flapjack regardless of skill level we all need a shuttle from time to time and on a run like Beech if youve never been there it would be nearly impossible to find the put-in. Fish I hear what youre saying about paddling with unknown boaters but I think more the issue here was not the paddler but the craft. Either way I want to clear anyones doubts about James's boat or ability, the guy can handle himself and hopefully this wont happen again to a paddler who belongs on a new run.

[Fish]

Thanks Benji, and no doubt here of his abilities. And you're dead on about finding the put in for Beech. I get lost nearly every time, and I know right where it is. That's a tough put in!

[JLEllison]

My only point is that if they made their decision based on whether or not I would be paddling a boat they deemed "proper", they were asking the wrong question to begin with. If a paddler is confident in their ability to handle a stretch of water, they will generally take into account whether they can do that stretch in the boat they will be using that day. This is definitely true with paddlers who have been at it a while. Telling someone that they aren't suited to paddle a stretch because they aren't in the right boat is pretty much telling them they do not know their own limits. Telling someone they can't go with you does suck. Sometimes it has to be done, but it should be done because that person isn't "ready" and not because they aren't paddling a boat you feel is best suited.

On a different note, I really honestly thank Jordan and Micah for showing me down Baker today and paddling with me on the Tot. Good to enjoy the water and make new friends. And thanks for sticking up for me Ben. I appreciate it.

[okieboater]

as I stated on another thread:

It ain't the boat, it's the paddler !


probably applied to this situation, both sides

[Cathy]

I hear you James, frustrating for sure. Chris and I ran into people not wanting to boat with us for whatever reason when we first moved out to WA state... even class III-IV! I guess you just can't expect too much when approaching a new-to-you group of boaters. Just keep boating, people will eventually know what's up .

[mgood]

On another note, I really honestly thank Jordan for reminding me why I don't paddle Jackson creek boats. Next time I'm tempted, I'll just remember today.

[Fish]

Sonny Soloman (the guy who led me down my first Gauley trip) once got rejected by some guys who were putting on Falling Water. They didn't think he looked like a good enough boater for the creek. They were pretty surprised when a bunch of us walked up and said hi to Sonny and told him he didn't need to be messing with Falling Water since we were going to Bobtail. They were just standing and staring as he walked away with us to head up the mountain for the shuttle. Pretty hard to judge how good a paddler you're talking to...

James, just order up some water and I'll come down and paddle something steep with ya!

- Fish

[waterhog]

How did i miss this thread hahahahaha this is great outta my group clubboater you dont belong here with your lonG hair and jackson playboat yesssss

[Flapjack]

Ben, thats why they keep it a secret putin, so you have to go to the bretherin of the Beech, I know because I've been trying for a while and its not because i'm a young guy. Hog i don't think it was a club boater that didn't let him tag.

[okieboater]

Flap, never had the chance to run Beech, but have hiked down to it with Fish checking out a creek that runs into Beech. By the time we got back up the hill, I remember being pretty much worn out.

Like I said, never run Beech but the put in (ask the bunch from Fayetteville who got poison Ivy from the hike down) the hike in to the run may well be more dangerous than the run itself.

Maybe there will be a "old timers first time" run one of these days.

[ARzach]

Ben et all... This is why people don't want to let just anyone jump on their Beech trip if they are not known entities, ESPECIALLY late in the day:

After about a 2 hour hike out we got a ride back to the van. Shelby drove me to Clarksville, my mom and dad took over from there, and drove me to Fort Smith to the hospital. A couple of good things did happen after all of this, with some help I got my drytop off before they cut it off at the hospital, and I learned if i'm ever having a bad day, not much can compare to the hike out of Beech creek with your arm dangling loose from your shoulder.

You may have the skillz to be there and be super BA brown-clawin' your way down or whatever... but if you are an unknown entity I don't blame anyone for saying no to a tag-along request on Newton County creeks. Not because they are all that hard, or that you wouldn't probablly be OK, but because one has to go on the information available at the time and it has big implications for the group in general to roll those dice on someone, no matter how many sweet runs they can list...

Of course calling people out on the internet when you clearly don't have any clue what you were really asking of that group is very entertaining for me, so carry on...

--Z