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Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:10 am
by rickyrod
Can't we all just get along . and hey Ryan I think we were a little early for the excitment on fri. MAKE LOVE NOT WAR -JUST NOT WITH EACH OTHER! :roll: Those guy's may not spend to much time in jail or any, but they more than likley won't steal from around here or from a boater anyway.

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:28 am
by Fish
suckhole wrote:There's plenty more folk wanna get involved and not be just whining, though. I think the question becomes how do you do it in a way where everybody feels they are a part. Maybe I should have stuck to my guns and made more effort even though I felt unwelcome by some. Maybe I should get off my butt and join back up so's I don't feel attacked if some-one mentions non-members. Then maybe get the others who feel left out to join and come hang with me-the other outcast:) then we're not outcast no more.
Thanks Suckhole - that's exactly what I've been saying all those times when I've said "if you don't like the club, get involved and change it!" So what's the magic ticket that gets you admission into the club even when other people in it might oppose what you're trying to do? Work. Volunteer. It's a volunteer organization, which means nobody gets paid despite there being quite a bit of work to do. If you take on work for the club - can be a part of the club you really like and working with people you like too (if for some reason there don't seem to be any of those, recruit your friends!) - you become valuable, or even irreplaceable, and people have to listen to you. If you're volunteering your time, you have much more of a say in club affairs.

So does that really work? Well it's how I went about trying to change things several years ago. I think at the time I was mostly seen as an steep creek boater and renegade teacher (I taught dozens of students while "uncertified" - GASP!) who didn't mind telling folks that the ACC was a bunch of fuddy-duddies just trying to earn merit badges. I believed ACC was out-of-touch with boaters my age (in my mid-20's) who paddled like I did (steep creeks, first-descents, freestyle playboating, etc.). Quite a few other folks my age believed that too - we damn sure didn't join ACC.

But one day, something changed a bit for me. ACC was involved with a couple of access issues and gauge issues that I was interested in. And they had money and political pull as an organization - I didn't have those things as me-myself-and-I. So I started, slowly, to get a bit more involved. When I put forth ideas, some folks were pretty condescending or downright hostile. Several of my early ideas got swept under the rug, more or less. But some people were really encouraging, and kept trying to help. And some of my ideas were way out there for the ACC - a steep creek class as Canoe School that would appeal to younger boaters comes to mind as a good example.

What I lacked was the political clout to persuade people that what I was talking about was important. The clout to try to change the club from within. So I volunteered - at Canoe School. And I started attending some board meetings and proposing my ideas - knowing they'd get shot down, but trying to put them out there anyway to get those people who might be my future allies interested in them.

So, did my plan work? Well, sort of. I got "voted" in as NW Chapter president, which gave me a real vote on the board and a much better platform from which to try to change the club. I was able to work directly and indirectly on trying to shape the club to do more to reach out into the paddling community at large - one of the problems I saw with how things were being done. I tried to make it more friendly for younger boaters (like me:). And I had plenty of help! We started up boatball (over protests about liability) and played out in public places. We ran Memorial and Labor Day trips to Ocoee (same nay-sayers). We "squandered" chapter funds on pizza and BBQ and boatball. We defended the message board several times when powers-that-be wanted to make it more of a "members only" affair. We got money spent on gauges that mattered most to steep creekers (Boxley, Richland).

But it wasn't easy and it wasn't fast. We never got a steep creek class at Canoe School (still trying). Younger boaters still don't have a designated position on the Board of Directors, which I've lobbied for for a while now. And there's still a big gap between the ACC old-guard who mostly run things right now and the creek and playboat folks - young folks mostly, with a few old geezers like me hanging in there for the time being. :)

But the key phrase is "mostly run things right now". Those old guys have done a lot of really good stuff to build this club and make it valuable. And having a well-organized, large club IS valuable because an organization like that has money and political clout that groups like "Team Stupid", "Paddle Texas", "Soul Boaters", etc. just can't ever have. They're not "mainstream" enough to appeal to enough people to generate the donations, the volunteers, etc. They never will be, because they'd lose their edge if they did that. Great to be anti-ACC until someone wants to cut down trees or dam your favorite steep creeks. Then the mainstream organizations like ACC count for a lot... if they listen and care about the issue your interested in (which ain't as likely if you've been essentially flipping them off in the past several years).

But as good a job as the old timers have done building the ACC up to be one of the best organizations of its kind in the country (which it without a doubt is), those old guys represent what boating is today less and less and less... It's inevitable as you get older - you just ain't gonna be "with it" (to use terminology old-folks will understand) no matter how hard you try. I'm running into that wall a bit myself lately. But the good news if you're a young boater who thinks the ACC should change its ways is that those guys ARE OLD! They're already mostly paddling rafts and telling whitewater stories that have more to do with beer and sunburns than gnarly rapids. They'll soon be in rocking chairs on front porches somewhere spinning paddling yarns that get bigger all the time. Who will run the ACC then?

The same people that run it now will! Not the same old guys, but new people who are willing to volunteer their time and guide the organization into the future! Those who have passion and ideas and who get in there and work to make things happen will rule the roost in the future, same as they have in the past. People who get told "no, that's not the way we do things" but who just smile politely and keep pushing in the direction they want to go. That's the future of the ACC right there. What the old guys built belongs to the young folks with whom they now seem so out of touch. You gotta love irony.

I've said before, I got involved with ACC when I finally got more pissed about my own hypocrisy and whining than I was about the problems I saw in the ACC. It's been frustrating at times, but at least I feel like I've made a difference as best I could. It's a pretty good feeling too. Now, I'll throw down the gauntlet to the next generation of paddlers - it's your turn. If you want to see change, be that change. Step up and volunteer. Make yourself valuable to ACC. And then change it. Infiltrate and blow things up from the inside. Not only is it way more likely to work than just getting mad, it can actually be a lot more fun. :)

Here's hoping the young folks step up and shake things up while also respecting the job their elders did before them to give them something great to shake up, and that the old geezers (like me?) remember that things and people who refuse to embrace change just find themselves on an ever steepening slope towards death... or worse irrelevance. I'll be working to help close that gap and keep the ACC strong enough to do the things I want it to do for me and my friends until I'm drooling in my rocking chair dreaming of hucking waterfalls... or at least dreaming of beer.

- Fish

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:48 am
by tomcat
good post creekfish....but please realize that some of us are just not club paddlers....no matter how you spin it. Nothing wrong with that....just some of us are different. So, please don't come down too hard of non-club paddlers. There are always gonna be non-club boaters and most don't like being beat on the head all the time for not joining a club.

Some towns have country clubs and there are always those who are not members of the local country club....and nothing makes a non-club member more anti-club than when the local country club claims that all things great about our town is all the good work done by the local club. Towns need all their citizens....even non-clubbers.

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 11:00 am
by suckhole
Let me be sure to clairify, as I don't want to leave town indefinitely without making sure I have tried to clear my side of the street. I was never trying to dig at the canoe club. Just say"hey I tried to get involved, so don't blame me for not trying." I've always supported the forum and all who dedicate their hard earned time. Don't know how some find the time they spend.They are bigger than I(Scott H comes to mind immediately).Lance, Coogan. All these folks don't necassarily do things I agree with all the time, but they dedicate theirselves in a very respectable way. I refer to us as a community. I posted deep thanks to my buds not long ago. I don't know or care if they are members. That is their business. I never even thought to let that enter the picture. That would be as silly as not paddling with rickyrod because of his ethnicity. I'm sorry for an damage done in moving the club forward. I am getting lots of good feedback from members who assure me they are aware of and addressing old problems, which I think will be more inclusive. I praise them for taking the bull by the horns and trying to make positive moves forward. Can't make it any plainer.

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 11:30 am
by suckhole
Oh fish. fish, fish, fish. I deeply regret not getting to know you better. I think from what I've seen, you have earned every bit of respect I see you getting. I regret I have to leave town, or I'd deliberately hunt you down for a run-and to shoot you with my super soaker. But momma needs me. So you take care and maybe we'll get together in the future. What I have learned is to Keep any possible conflicts on the PM's and Praise for cool fishes for all to see. Thought about pulling my posts down to kill this thing once and for all. But it seems we have a conversation going on that is worth having. I'll do my best to get back and get more involved when my crazy life settles down. And I'll always strive to be fishy about it. Stay outta the suckholes buddy. Now for a nine hour drive. But it does put me REAL close to the TN, KY ,VA,WVA,NC area. Maybe that's how I'll catch a fish...................

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 1:13 pm
by A Savage spanke
Fish is right pretty good towards non ACC'ers. I could be wrong but I think he's the reason we're let on the board. Once he made a comment that without us this site would be like paddletexas (and no one wants that.) I paddle with him frequently and he never tries to get me to join. Although if I did he'd be the main reason, DARE I SAY inspiration?

How the hell would you do a steep creek class at canoe school? If the mighty mullberry gets over 4 ft you shut the thing down, even with enough water it lacks gradient.

I'm a big fan of the ACC group that drives for hours ever weekend to go from redding to turner bend...

Rickyrod isn't white?!?! Sorry man, not sure if I can join you at wister now :poke:

FIGHT!

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 1:49 pm
by rickyrod
Thats right . I'm not . there's alot of things I'm not that doesnt make them right or wrong :lol: so when things like this come up we need to remember why we paddle .it is in part for the company, the love of the land we live in and nothing is ours, forever so enjoy it while you can and get along while we'are on this earth.Oh and I'm not an acc member either not cus I don't want to but I would rather give my time as a paddler than as a club-member . And yup Im a mexican .you know who else was a mex. the guy who invented color TV. and poncho villa could kick your a$$ anyday :poke: just joshen you couldnt handle the WW anyway :crazy:

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 2:01 pm
by rickyrod
Thats not a dagger symbol it's a sombrero!!! :lol:

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 2:22 pm
by tomcat
rickyrod wrote:Thats not a dagger symbol it's a sombrero!!! :lol:
glad you made that edit from somprero to sombrero as I was fixin to asks whathehell a somprero was. :lol:

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 2:32 pm
by Gordon Kumpuris
So the Fish is leaving us. Good. Maybe now we can return this club to exclusive, secretative, tight knit group of old geezers that our forefathers intended. Get that long haired, 4 eyed, flat bellied, punk, hippy with his crazy ideas outta here.

Grumman rules! :poke:

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 3:00 pm
by A Savage spanke
Ricky, My great Grandparents were kidnapped by poncho villa, we still have a scarf he gave my great grandmother... magine that

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 3:11 pm
by Fish
Go ahead and make your little plans Gordon... All the while, I will be quietly pulling the ACC's strings from my new hidden lair in Kansas City... Bwahahahahaha! :sinister:

Punk Hippie Power!
Fish

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 3:11 pm
by Jody
Fish will never really leave. He is only just going a few hours north.

He only WISHES he were leaving.

:mrgreen:

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 5:09 pm
by ieatcrayons
LOL i love it.. this one thread is one of the reasons i don't want to join.. then when you keep reading.. its the one reason i want to join.. i have to sign on here and read the post at least a few times a week! i'm a loaner at heart much like "tom" anti join anything, any group....an if you asked any one who knew me very well... they would tell you its probably best for the group!!! Yall do a lot of great things so keep it up!!!!!!!

iam

Re: Intervention

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:33 pm
by CapnTom
While suckhole's comments might seem off-base,there is some underlying truth...