Page 2 of 3
Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:56 pm
by Gordon Kumpuris
Mission accomplished!
Hmmm. It's hard to argue....The Dulberry ranks pretty high on the "overrated" deal. In fact I basically will paddle it one weekend a year during Canoe School. The shuttle on Lower Richland sucks but that's about all that sucks about it. The shuttle on upper Richland sucks too. The ww is better on upper Richland but the pucker factor is a little more too. Depends on your need for speed. In my opinion L. Rich got a bad rap a decade or so ago when some publication, perhaps "Ozark WW" said that the last 2 or 3 miles above the takeout were flatwater. That's just bullfeathers. Class I perhaps but not flatwater at all compared to many other streams.
As for the Cadron...... In my not so humble opinion I think it's one of the most underrated streams in Arkansas but the level makes all the difference. At 4.5ish feet the playspots are all over the place. It's no upper Richland but considering it's very close to central Ark, the shuttle is a no brainer and the length, it's high on my list. But again only at levels around 4 to 4.5ish feet. I almost won't go there below 3 feet cause it gets boring in my opinion. Now if you are just a downriver boater who does not play the holes and waves, you might not rank the Cadron very high for numerous reasons.
I second the mention about the Tot between Ed Banks and the falls. I'd rather paddle the Cadron one hour from my house than drive all that way to paddle just that short section. Of course I'm one to talk. I once drove all the way to the Ocoee, paddled the middle section one time, peed my pants and drove all the way home!! Needless to say gas was a tad cheaper then!
As for Hurricane creek, I still say it's waaaay overrated! Now if you are not interested in Richland or Falling Waters and the Piney is too washed out then yes it's a viable option. I've paddled it about 6 times now and even got to sort of officially name a rapid there ("Oh Oh" rapid) once. Unless someone paved the road into the put in

the shuttle just sucks big time. Not only is it long, it is sort of awkward. Both the put and the take out are well off of the main hwy in that part of the ozarks. As for the ww on Hurricane.....Hmmm. The "warmup" is just another way to say crappy lame a** whitewater!!

The good stuff is in fact good. In fact I damn near saw God once there after a particular trashing but there is a lot of class II stuff and not so much class III stuff and no class IV stuff. Skill level obviously plays a big role in rating the experience of a river. I once considered the Snow Creek run on the I.B. a prime WW run. I now consider it hardly worth the effort to drive there. The holes are few, the run is too short and their are like no midstream boulders that make so many other ozark streams interesting. It does have a world class shuttle. Ok.....Rant over!!! Where's Tomcat when we need him??
Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:24 pm
by RomanLA
KAYAKN wrote:You guys whining about rivers that just dont have the fun factor in them, give me a break!!! I'd give my left %$&& or yours to have any ww in La. The other day it was raining its &%% off and i drove all day just trying to find a ditch anywhere to paddle. Found a few that might work, now i just need a dump truck full of boulders to wreck in the right spot.

If you're that bored, Toro Bayou will be at a good level tomorrow or the next day. You could go boof Kisatchie Falls too. lol
http://americanwhitewater.org/content/R ... _state_LA_
Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:27 pm
by davidbob
Gordon Kumpuris wrote:[/b]followed closely by Hurricane Creek (Newton Co)...
I'll add that I think the most underrated stream in Arkansas is Lower Richland. I 'll save my reasons for a later time.
Flame away......
Buttload - I remember a cold Spring morning a few years back when the Arkansas Tech Wonder Boy Wilderness Overnight Paddling Club didn't think Hurricane was overrated (ask GN YAKN about his conversation at Ft. Douglas with the Johnson County Sheriff sometime).
Ditto re: LR
Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:46 pm
by Dave Smith
ahhh good one Gordon, I'll play!
Doesn't comfort and skill level really play into what might make a river "overrated" by some?
Shoot even I can remember "back in the day" when some of these NOW fanatic paddlers thought the mighty Cadron or Mulberry was a handfull
I'm ready to try one of these "overrated" rivers soon!!!!
Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:32 pm
by Roger
Nice troll,
ELITIST!

Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:32 pm
by Owl
Dave Smith wrote:I'm ready to try one of these "overrated" rivers soon!!!!
Given the lack of Fall paddling to date, I certainly agree.

Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:33 pm
by Roger
Just to put in my two cents. Again. My first whitewater experience? The Big Piney. What has that brought me? Oh, let's see!
1. A 30-year friendship with the Moore family (Kerry, Deb, Nash, and Merica)! The paid shuttle is worth it.
2. The source of many other long-time friends and acquaintances.
3. A knowledge of the history of Pope and other counties.
4. A place for a lot of weekends celebrating the outdoors.
5. Get the drift?
Hurricane? As far as the shuttle is concerned, just be glad you don't live in West Texas! I was paying $50+ for shuttles then when the Moore's were getting maybe $25 (just guessing).
Cadron? Gee, it's nice to drive 45 minutes and be able to put on a creek that lets me get outside.
Good troll, though!
It finally found a home!

Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:21 pm
by Cowper
canoe wrote:Richland, no fun factor, boring to roll out of bed and drag myself down too familar rapids that I've run a couple thousand times, scenary is getting old, never having to set shuttle. Takes the new completely out of the game. Dale
Dale, if you really wanted to lay it all on the line, you could have just added that you were getting tired of Pam's cooking, too. I mean, I know that you must hate having red rice and beans ready when you get back to the cabin, almost as much as you hate having the truck waiting for you at the bottom, with cold beer in the summer and hot chocolate in the winter. (such a tough life you live...)
Gordon, congratulations! I've been wondering just what is the maximum amount of "troll factor" that can be tolerated on the "new message board" without getting the poster banned. I think you just found the line and stepped right up to the edge.

Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:45 pm
by iYak
Good thread Gordo.
For me, one of the most underrated is Lee Creek at high water. It's 35 minutes from Fort Smith, with a shuttle that you can walk in less than 10 minutes. It's great at medium water, really fun at higher water, and at flood (14-20 feet and above) it totally changes into another river. Huge waves one after another, giant holes, and non-stop surfing. Football Field Rapid is usually nothing at lower water, but at higher water it's one huge surfing wave after another. Be sure that everyone spreads themselves out well at the top of this rapid, so they can maximize their surfing time on all the waves. Then you get to the ledge. You look at the monster and think that no way you're going in. Then someone dares you, or maybe they just go in themselves and then you have to go too. Hold on because it will be a wild ride.
If you can handle full grown oak trees sharing the river with you, it is a surfers dream. At the high levels the river spreads wide so there is plenty of room to avoid danger but you need to keep a sharp lookout because those dangers come fast. Be sure that if you are down in a trough of a wave to have someone looking out for trees coming down river. It's definitely not a place for anyone without a solid role, but for those that can handle it, it is a fantastic little run that is just over a half hour from Fort Smith.
The bonus is, that when Lee Creek is in flood that usually means that West Cedar Creek is big too. That is another one of my favorite creeks at high water. It's surf city, with some big holes and big long rapids thrown in one after another. If you can handle it, it's a sweet ride. Have a swim, and it's going to be rough day. Bonus is the two runs are close enough that you can easily do both in an afternoon.
As for overrated streams, I'll say Sugar Creek at low water (I love it at medium to high water though).
Ben Doodle is a great little steep creek, but the hiking and portages involved make me not want to come back.
The Mulberry is overrated, while at the same time it is underrated. Depends on the day, type of craft, the section, and it depends on the people in your company. Not that I've ever had a bad time with anyone on the Mulberry, but now that I've got junior kayaking, it just takes on a whole different meaning to go run the Shoe section at 1.8 feet with the family. It's a blast even at low levels.
Also on the bummer side: any creek that you hike down into a mile through rough mountainous terrain to get to the putin, only to find that it is too low to float.
Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:32 am
by prophet
the one i'm not on
Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:37 am
by panicman
TO me spirits creek is a bit overrated. Its pretty much down the middle the whole way. Granted it is narrow so there really is not anywhere else to go but down the middle but really not any technical moves to speak of. The upside is that it is not to terribly far from home and makes a good second run after hitting bottom of fern through little mill creek.
Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:14 am
by Fish
Man, pickin on poor defenseless little creeks when they don't even have enough water in 'em to hit you back. Hope you guys are proud of yourselves...
Spirits is simply the best intro to creekin that Arkansas has to offer the aspiring class three paddler... for all the reasons you list.
- Fish :)
Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:37 pm
by panicman
I know I am being a bit of a paddling snob. Don't get me wrong I have fun on it and will paddle it again sooner than later I hope. I just would not drive along way to fire it up.
Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:50 pm
by iYak
Panicman, have you hit Spirits at high water yet? It's worth the drive...
Re: Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:29 pm
by shelbyjohnson
I'd like to offer up an UNDER-RATED nomination.
The rapid right below the Falls on Falling Water Creek is a Class IV. The whole right side of the creek there has a huge undercut.
Most everyone considers Falling Water Creek a Class III but that one drop is an exception to the rule.