Most OVERRATED stream in Arkansas

[Gordon Kumpuris]

Ok, in a shameless attempt to start some controversy on the board I'd like to pose a question..... What is the most overrated stream in Arkansas? How's that for a can of worms?? I'll go out on a limb and say in my opinion, the most overrated stream in Arkansas (that I've paddled) is Big Piney Creek followed closely by Hurricane Creek (Newton Co). Before you scream heresy, consider that I'm taking into consideration the entire paddling experience, i.e. shuttles, parking, launch fees, number of rapids, number of long pools, scenery, water quality, frequency of days that it can be paddled, remoteness of the stream (both a + and -), length of the run(s), etc etc.

The Piney has either a very long do it yourself shuttle or an expensive shuttle, the pools are long and often very cold and windy experiences, the rapids are class II or II+ at best and in my opinion better play spots can be found with a lot less effort. In my opinion the Piney is a better place to canoe vs kayak due to the length of the (Heltons to Long Pool) run, frequency of the rapids and holes, number of long pools and lack of top notch play spots. The name of the campground take out should give you pause! I've also had flat tires and other vehicle related “issues” on more than one occasion while traversing the shuttle roads so the experience can get unexpectedly pricey or at least annoying. All that said, I still LOVE the Piney so don't line up to tar and feather me!!

I'll add that I think the most underrated stream in Arkansas is Lower Richland. I 'll save my reasons for a later time.

Flame away......

[Zach]

I'll bite, only because I can't have you talking s**t about Hurricane Creek.

I'll admit, Big Piney Sucks, but only compared to the other stuff that isn't even running when the Piney is still cranking. Long pool isn't even very long (though the pools above it are stupid long at low water).

It is a big watershed and gets a second rise in level when everything else is gone.
Also, at 6+ft Piney is awesome. Big wavetrains and funs holes to drop into. Surfing rapid becomes a super fun 5ft standing wave. Hard to stay on, but a consequence free place to throw yourself out into it and get thrown into the maelstrom behind it.

Only thing keeping me from getting on Piney that high is that Hurricane is going (Piney at 6ft and Richland at 3ft will get Hurricane going). I think it is one of the most underrated streams in Arkansas. So much fun. A nice little warm up (fast and tight if you come in the side creek) then lots of tight dogleg and s-bend turns with some nice spin holes mixed in. Finally a section of big drops (nothing huge, but as big as anything on Hailstone). It is like Hailstone, but shorter and all the big drops are in one section instead of spread out all the way through (and obviously fewer of them). Hurricane also goes a lot. When Upper Richland is too low, Hurricane is still there.

I can give or take Piney at a low level (it has to have been really dry for me to head up there), but same goes for Mulberry and Buffalo below the Hailstone section.

Of lesser run stuff, Hurricane is one of my favorites (along with Little Mo'). In general, I prefer Hurricane even to Hailstone. You don't get an overdose from Hurricane. When you get off Hailstone you don't want to get in a boat again for weeks.

[Half Ton]

I personally don't see what a long or expensive shuttle has to do with a stream being overated.....

Because if that's the case the Lower Richland and many other's would also fit into that category.

Furthermore, if your gonna talk about something being overated based partly on water quality and scenic value you should place a heavier weighting factor for those two parameters for the Big Piney and Hurricane.

Now, if you want some flaming and more intensive argument/discussion.....I'll go out on a limb and say that the CADRON is very, very overated

Flame away

[Zach]

Now, if you want some flaming and more intensive argument/discussion.....I'll go out on a limb and say that the CADRON is very, very overated

Flame away

How about the Tot from Ed Banks to the Falls parking lot (skipping the falls and bottom section). If you're coming from LR/Conway/NW Ark/Russellville that's at least 5+hrs if not 6+hrs of driving for barely an hour and a half run. But people do it all the time.

[dbschlotterbeck]

Sugar Creek - if I wanted a salad bar I would have gone to the local Western Sizzlin.

just kidding...I actually like sugar creek...but it is a little brushy.

[Fish]

And Lower Richland shuttle is short???

Gordo, you are clearly on crack or some reasonable facsimile thereof. Mulberry could be possibly be called overrated sometimes. Frog may be one of the most underrated. But the Piney is just a plain great class 2 run with more good rapids and play than just about any other that holds water that well. Only somebody who hasn't spent enough time on the Dullberry would bi**h about the Piney. Central chaptoids must take it for granted since it's not 2.5 hours away I guess.

To anyone else who would diss the Piney: the most overrated paddling in the state is your mom.

- Fish :)

[Clif]

Cadron fits under the original Piney post...It is often the only thing running. But hey it is also in my backyard.

Only reason it gets folks away from other green or blue runs is close to home. And as Billfish sed in another thread...beats sitin at the office or on the couch

[Trismegistus]

I'll bite too!

Don't know if the Cadron is over-rated but it is certainly over-utilized given its proximity to many other equally as nice runs. The Cadron is high on the list solely for ease of access, short shuttles, fairly high shoals-to-pool ratio and relatively beautiful watershed given its proximity to civilization. Nearby I still put Archey, Cove Creek and the upper East Fork of the Cadron higher on my list because they are more isolated and under-utilized -- and I hope it stays that way.

I too find the long drive to the Tot, Dierks, etc. a drag that tempers the overall experience. I love paddling-- hate driving. Given the drive I'll often settle for a trip down the Little Maumelle over the misery of spending 5-6 or more hours on the road. Moreover I have found I can give myself a Class IV experience on even a Class II stream with a little bad luck, poor preparation and asinine boat/paddle placement.

The most underrated streams are our slow moving sloughs and swamps and backwaters -- even the backside of Rosenbaum Lake puts me at peace. The most over-rated goes to Rockport -- just not my thing at all. The Buffalo would

I love 'em all but if I had to pick just one -- my favorite remains upper Richland on a cold dark winter day when no one is around -- doesn't get much better.

[Zach]

Only somebody who hasn't spent enough time on the Dullberry would bi**h about the Piney.

No Joke. Every time I get done with the Wolf Pen to Byrds section I tell myself I'm never doing it again (too damn long and flat).

[okieboater]

Come on guys!

Grousing about paddling just an hour or so from home!

Give me a break.

I have got up at or before 5 am to drive either to the Cossatot, Richland, etc so many times I have lost count. Spend a few hours on the water then drive 5 or more hours home the same day. And by the way, am super happy to do it. Wish I had a lot more opportunities.

Big Piney, Frog, Mulberry are maybe 3 hours or so away, but that is the closest runs for a lot of us.

Sugar, my opinion is a really fun run and I am bummed that I have not run it for a couple years now.

If I had Big Piney less than an hour from home, I would be excited to the max. Piney is a great place to work on eddy turns and ferry moves and the long pools are a great place to work on forward strokes.

Folks living in the great state of Arkansas do not know how good they have it till they move out of state be that Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, MO etc etc

For the record I believe the State of Arkansas has zero over rated or under rated streams - they are all good!

I'm a happy boater to be on any Arkansas Stream - it's all good.

Looking forward to see any or all of you on a Arkansas stream,

Dave

[jjones03]

Yeah i would definitely say the mulberry. Anytime someone mentions it, i throw up in my mouth a little bit. Thats how bad it is.....

[eubie]

Come on guys!

and ferry moves and the long pools are a great place to work on forward strokes.

Dave

And I thought I had the corner on the rose-colored glasses.

[Clif]

Some of them "Berry homeboys" is gonna start shootin in a minute. You guys better ease up.

[KAYAKN]

You guys whining about rivers that just dont have the fun factor in them, give me a break!!! I'd give my left %$&& or yours to have any ww in La. The other day it was raining its &%% off and i drove all day just trying to find a ditch anywhere to paddle. Found a few that might work, now i just need a dump truck full of boulders to wreck in the right spot.

[canoe]

Richland, no fun factor, boring to roll out of bed and drag myself down too familar rapids that I've run a couple thousand times, scenary is getting old, never having to set shuttle. Takes the new completely out of the game. Dale