Arkansas Canoe Club Forums

Cool, Tulsa area does not have a lot of outdoor shops BUT we are blessed with a big time Bass Pro Shop. I go there every few months to check out their grilling and meat smoking gear selection which is outstanding. Have not been lately and will check out the Wag bags.

This message board is a great way for all of us to stay in touch but a often over looked feature is it's ability for all of us to share and learn. Hopefully, we can all do our part to protect the streams and trails we enjoy so much.

My guess is most of the general public would never spend much time thinking about how to handle poop other than flushing their toilet. When a person gets away from flush toilets, waste management becomes a part of each day's activities.

Like many of the folks on this msg board, I have stepped in my share of "Land Mines", almost thrown up looking at stuff floating in our streams and then there is the time some of my buds and I spent a week power boating around Lake Powell back in the early 80's. We anchored in a extremely back in the what I thought was rarely visited area. Almost vertical rock walls all around. We cooked dinner on the boat and the sunlight was gone. I had been sleeping on deck with my thermarest. Spotted what looked like a little sand spot maybe 30 or so feet up a bit of a trail. By that time it was moon light. I went up the trail saw the whiteness of the sand, ignored the crunching sounds as I walked into the only sandy spot in many miles of rock, tossed down my thermarest and sheet and fell asleep. Woke up in the bright morning sunlight surrounded by almost solid clumps of toilet paper and dried out poop balls. Nothing goes away in the desert unless it gets blown away by the wind or washed away by a flash flood. I was surrounded by the calling cards of decades of visitors to this unique spot. Fortunately, it was all dried out. Sad in a way that us humans leave our calling cards like this.

Back to the boat, morning coffee and we motored off for more adventures in this very unique Lake. Lots of great memories from this trip but I will never forget my night under the shooting stars but on the dried out turd and tissue balls!!!!! Fortunately, nothing stuck to my Thermarest and all I took home was memories. My buddies did not believe the story and went up to see for themselves.

and if I know Dave, that morning description was not as .......family friendly

Dave is right the Goover Eco-Safe Rocket Box solution is the best way to go. Especially on long multi day trips with 6-20 people. We used 5 of them on a Western Trip this spring with no problem. They are the required gear for rivers like the Middle Fork, Selway, and the Colorado. Those rivers have the ability to easily flip a fully loaded gear raft so you want your poo in a very safe container! The groovier/rocket box provides that and 10 or 12 people can use that one system for 3 or so without using any other container. And for no reason would I want to take the Bag system on a 18 day trip down the Colorado with 15 people. No That is not what it is for!

But the bag has its place. It is not for large groups on multi day trips. And yes you keep having to buy the what I consider costly bags. And yes it only has 3 legs and may not be quite as stable as a rocket box. But the first thing it does is get the poo off the river safely. Like Cliff I have never had one fail in my trash sack, not to say they haven’t. A groover requires you to travel to a dump site for RV’s to get rid of your poo. With the bag you just toss it in the trash. It is bio-degradable and requires not further processing. You will spend at least 30 stinky minutes at a dump site dumping the groover. For sanitary reasons I don’t really like reusing a bag but have in the past. Most folks camp on the river from 1 to 4 or 5. The bag system works well for 1 or 2 nights but after that you will start collecting quite a few bags. But like Cliff said you can take a small bucket with a lid to store them in until you get to the take out. And the bag system is much more conducive to carrying in a canoe. The groover will require a rocket box plus a bag or something to carry seat in. And if you have a large group that’s not a problem.

Bottom line no system is perfect for every situation. I camp probably 15-20 nights a year on the Buffalo with either me or 1 or 2 others. I take the bag toilet every time I go. And it has always worked well in that situations. And with most people doing one night with 2 to 6 folks a bag would work fine.

It’s a personal choice and everyone will want something different. But the most important thing is getting human waste off the river in a safe and sanitarily way. Both the bag and groover system do just that. One may be a little better than the other but both get the JOB DONE! An


 Easy to use. No assembly required, sets up in seconds.
 Same height and size as a standard toilet.
 Folds into Briefcase Size with Dimensions of 19" x 14" x 5.
 Utilizes degradable waste bags (WAGÖ bags) that gel.
 Waste, neutralize odor and begin the decay process, which make this system spill proof and hygienic.
 Special design of seat flange keeps outside of waste bag clean.
 Three-leg design for stability on uneven terrain.
 Weighs only 7 lbs.
Bolder Outdoor Center is the best price I have found the Eco-Safe Groover is $158 plus another $20 or so for the rocket box. This includes the seat!
They also have the Wag-Bag System it is $117 plus another $60 or so for a back pack it fits in. And I think someone said the bags are about $3 each.

Cascade Outfitters has the Eco Safe system on fall sale for 150 bucks, now would be a good time to buy one as I rarely see them on sale. I just got the cascade outfitter sale flyer in snail mail. I got mine direct from the factory many moons ago back before you could find them easily - they are made in Wichita KS or used to be. Asked the guy who runs eco safe how long the plastic containers should last. He said long as I only put biodegradable smell good in the plastic, if should last a life time. Evidently the hard chemicals used in the RV setups is pretty caustic stuff and he was afraid it might hurt Eco Safe plastic altho at the time he did not know of any eco safe container failures.

what I do is add some water and a lot of dish water detergent to my eco safe's on the last day and shake them a few times. By the time I get to the clean out station every thing is a slurry and can be easily flushed out clean. Way back when, I did not do a timely clean out and the groover had dried out inside. Took a while with a sturdy stick for me to finally break down the poop and flush it out. I am sure every one has their own groover clean out procedure, mine works for me, might not for others.

Last year I got a very good rocket box for 19 bucks. Maybe more at your local army surplus store.

I totally agree with Allen and for a small group or just me, I think a wag bag and a bucket with a good lid, maybe one of those dog food containers would be ideal. Just for the record, Eco Safe makes a small plastic self contained system, more or less for a small group. I have used one of them and while they work, they are not that sturdy to set on and do not have the protection of a rocket box outer container like the big Eco Safe system has. So, I did not buy one. Which leads me to think a supply of wag bags and a medium bucket with screw on lid would make a good emergency day use backup for even a GC trip. Have to check the regs to see if that would work.

And, for my rocket box I have a bomber padded bag that it fits into exactly and the bag has great tie in straps.

Allen, I will show you the rocket box bag on our next river trip.

Well folks, we have cussed and discussed this topic to the max.

Time to find something else to work on. How about boating?

The way I see this issue, the point is not what is used where “out west”. I don’t live “out west”. Nor is it which system is preferred by whom and for what particular logistics. They all ultimately accomplish the same goal.

My questions are why don’t we have mandatory waste management requirements (i.e. Carry It Out) here at home like they do “out west”, isn't it about time we got them implemented, and how could we (or one) go about doing so?

But maybe this question would be better served in another thread.

Time for a new thread, this one has served it's original purpose in my opinion.

What say you Richard??