Help with Kayak Selection

[Dis147]

Seeking opinions on a good kayak for a paddler with intermediate skills looking to improve his skills and run Hailstone, Richland, etc. someday…… Most of my time is spent around/on the Mulberry as I have a place to stay close by……… Any opinions regarding a good boat selection to meet the criteria listed above would be appreciated……

[Jeremy M]

There are several boats out there that fit the bill. If you're wanting to step it up to running creeks, then a creek boat would be the most likely candidate. Pyranha Burn, Liquid Logic Hefe, Dagger Nomad, Wavesport Habitat, Jackson Kayak Rocker. All of those are considered creek boats, meaning large volume, displacement or semi-displacement hull, softer chines and edges, and usually longer for speed. With that said, it also might be beneficial to choose a boat with more volume that is close to the boat you have now as far as the hull design goes. I think it helps with the transition into a new boat. Not knowing what you paddle now, would make this recommendation harder; however, if you're not wanting a full on creek boat and want something that could be easier to surf, then boats in a class called river running/creek would be the ticket. Those might include the Dagger Mamba, Liquid Logic Remix, Jackson Kayak Hero, or the Pyranha Ammo. Certainly these are not hard lines of distinction, but I thought this might get the ball rolling for you.

[Cowper]

I hate responding to a question with more questions, but wow, the field is wide open here. There a so many good boats out there, and Hailstone and Richland can be run in anything from the most radical play boat to the most forgiving creek boat, depending on the experience level, skill, and style/aggressiveness of the paddler. Get a play boat, and you should build your experience a fair amount before attempting those runs. You'd be able to run them sooner if you get a general river running boat, and sooner still if you get a pure creek boat.

Your weight and physical size will also be big factors in your final boat selection. Your goals and paddling preferences make a big difference - do you want to just run the rivers, catching eddies, do you like to surf, do you want to learn to do the more aggressive play moves like cartwheels and such? Will you want to run some Class 1 and II streams, possibly with longer pools between the rapids?

Where you live impacts stuff too - for example, if you're anywhere near Little Rock, then you should drop by the UALR pool sessions Wednesday evening, meet some of the boaters, and go eat supper with them after the session. Everyone will be happy to share boat info and opinions. If you live near Hot Springs, you should drop by Ouachita Outdoor Outfitters - Jeremy works there and would be able to help you narrow down your search. Live in the booneys? Make plans to attend Rendezvous, do some chatting and boat swapping there - I'm sure there will be demo boats available.

[Jeremy M]

Dang Cowper...are you like a scientist or something?

[Cowper]

I am only just barely able to decide what boats I want to buy for me - you have no idea how difficult it is for me to help someone else choose a boat for them.

[Mike_P]

Cowper could you explain what you mean by "You'd be able to run them sooner if you get a general river running boat, and sooner still if you get a pure creek boat"

I haven't paddled a "pure creek" boat but thought they were considered somewhat harder to paddle than river runners, but with softer landings on drops.

Thanks

[Cowper]

For running the Hailstone or Richland, someone who is relatively newer / less experienced could run the creeks with a reasonable degree of safety in a creek boat because the boat is move stable, highly maneuverable, generally more forgiving of mistakes, less likely to pin, and if it does pin, less likely to be pushed under the surface due to the higher volume.

To run the creek with the same margin of safety in a river-running boat, a person's skills should be somewhat more developed, to compensate for the fact that the boat won't tend to compensate as much for any mistakes they might make.

And to run it in a play boat, again, assuming some similar degree of safety margin is highly desired, they would need to have much more developed skills - mistakes that had no penalty in the other two boats could be a big deal. Hitting something head-on is more likely to result in foot injury; pinning is more likely in any broach, and once pinned it is more likely the water could push the boat down and lead to a "heads down" pin where in the same situation a creek boat might either not pin at all, or give you a "heads up" pin.

So, for most people who are still on a learning curve, they could run the creek "sooner" in a river runner as compared to the play boat, and "sooner still" (least required level of experience) if they took a creek boat.

One possible exception to the rule would be that if you almost never paddle a creek boat but have a river running boat you are very comfortable (that is, competent in), then if these rivers are at medium to lower levels, you might chose your "familiar" river runner over a borrowed and thus "unfamiliar" creek boat. The degree to which a given boat design will compensate for mistakes is an important factor, but so is your skill with whatever boat you choose!

[Dis147]

All,

Thanks for the input, all of it helps a great deal. I do realize there are a heap of choices out there and helping an individual choose what boat is right for them is not an easy task. I just asked for input and suggestions and that’s exactly what you have provided, thanks.

The more I learn and research about river running/creek type boats, like for instance the JK Hero, the more I feel that type of boat might just suit my paddling style. All the write ups I have come across indicate the Hero would be a good all around type boat(mainly river running, eventually creeking for me), any experience with this boat or thoughts?

I could find myself on some fairly long stretches of flat-water heading to the next stretch of whitewater at times, would a creek boat be that difficult to maneuver and slow on flat-water?

By the way, I live in Fort Smith (and sometimes very near the Little Mulberry and Friley Creek) so I will try to hook up with members of the river valley chapter………

Thanks Again

[RomanLA]

I could find myself on some fairly long stretches of flat-water heading to the next stretch of whitewater at times, would a creek boat be that difficult to maneuver and slow on flat-water?

It's funny you ask...I actually spent the afternoon paddling my river/creek boat on flatwater. The thing with whitewater boats is that they always want to turn. It will take practice to paddle in a straight line. If you stop paddling, it will start to turn and you will have to take a stroke to correct it. Once you get the hang of it, you can actually use the spin momentum to your advantage though. It shouldn't be too bad in the pools between rapids. At nearly 8 feet, it will be longer and faster than most whitewater boats. The only thing faster would be one of the hybrids with drop skegs and those definitely aren't made for creeking.