Arkansas Canoe Club Forums

Hey,

What is a good 12 ft sb raft? I'm thinking about getting a smaller raft or a shredder. I really like the puma and the star's but not sure if big tubes (like on the water bug series) are better than smaller tubes. Anyways, what do you guys like? I'd be doing both rowing and paddling. Thanks for any info, ty

I've never been on anything of significance in a shredder, but the stuff they have been used to run sort of speaks for itself. On the other hand, these are not ideal for say a two to three day trip on the Buffalo; two paddlers with day gear is about the load it was designed for.

Right now, I'm really big on the 13.5 foot Star waterbug. The 12 footers are tremendous fun, but even a single passenger is enough that you notice major handling differences; put two folks in front, and you really notice it. The 13.5 footer has extra capacity, but still handles like a "small" raft unless your load is very heavy. Two folks can easily load and unload it. We'll have one of each at Rockport this weekend, if you can make it down.

I haven't paddled any 12 foot self-bailers, but I just don't think those are going to surf and play in the same way that the waterbugs will. If someone has more experience with those and really loves them, speak up as to the features you like; I'm listening too!

The puma and shredders are probably a bit more durable, but the Stars seem to be holding up pretty well too.

Coming from a vertically challenged person try both out cause the big tubes on the star make it harder for me to reach out and paddle. Not that this really addressed any of your questions just my two cents.

We love our Puma. R2's and rows like a champ on things like the Saint, Tot, Lower Richland, Ocoee, etc. I'd like to R2 it on something like the Yampa or lower water Middle Fork trip sometime.

If you end up getting a 12ft raft Cowper's right. A rower and a passenger is all I want on something challenging because a 12ft does fill up fast...but sooooo much fun! 2 paddlers and a guide is about max as paddle raft. The size to me is perfect for rivers in the southeast though.....goes back to no one boat fits everything.

As far as the Star rafts......I personally don't care much for the big tubes or the way the floor attaches to the boats for paddle rafting. Joel McCuen guided one down with me in it on the Upper/Middle Ocoee one time and I just found it hard to stay in and get good strokes. Need a long paddle for sure. Price is good though......

I'm not sure of the Star's warrantee but Aire's is a 10 year, no fault so pretty good.

Scott Roach will have ours down at Rockport Saturday as well so try it out!

My 12' Star will be at Rockport Saturday, too. For rowing solo or with one passanger and a light load, I love it!! It went through Warm Springs rapid at about 12,000 cfs like a champ! It is small enough to do most Arkansas streams and rivers and big enough to take to the nanty and Ocoee... Bob Stout took his on the Salt River this spring and, while he could only handle his personal load, he did most rapids better than the rest of us. I love rowing my Star!

HOWEVER, the Stars SUCK as paddle rafts. The big tubes make it almost impossible to reach out get good strokes, even for only slightly height-challanged folks, and susan's right about the height of the floor being a problem in maintining balance.

If I were buying a 12' raft today and wanted to both paddle raft and row, I'd head straight to the Aire Puma... or up-size to a Super Puma. Though they cost a fair amount more than a Star, you get Aire's 10-year warranty... and they handle like a dream whether rowed or paddled. If I only wanted to row, I'd save money and get a Star.

Thanks for the replies on and off the board!!!

I'm looking for a smaller rig as I've decided the 14ft hyside I got is a bit too big for one-two person use. It's great for the family, but a lot of work on a day trip to do solo. It sounds like with the stars, you have to decide if you want to row or paddle raft on what you get. What type does kerry moore rent out as paddle rafts? I think he can readily convert to a oar rig if needed.

I've always liked the pumas as you can row it and put 4 people in it for a fun paddle raft day- but there're pricey new and used are hard to find. I've looked at jack's plastic boats and the shredder but am hesitant to go to cataraft style as it starts to limit people number when paddle rafting.

Any other opinions/comments are welcome. ty

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you can also see a couple of opinions of Vanguard rafts in the thread "Vanguard Rafts" on pg. 4 of General Discussion.

I’ve got an NRS Otter 11.5 self bailer and we love it. It has been paddle rafted down upper Richland and the Hailstone, but mostly we use it as day trips on the Mulberry and Buffalo as an oar rig with a day frame. It is light enough two persons can easily carry it full rigged a short distance. Inflates and deflates fast, you can roll it up and it fits in a car trunk, toss the frame on the roof. We also fully loaded the Otter for a six day Green River trip at Gates of Lodore. The first big rapid it was sluggish, but as we depleted supplies (beer/ice/water) the lighter it got, the better. It was awesome dodging in and out of the rock gardens.
I’ve got a 14’ Vanguard as well, it gets much less use because ideally you need four or five folks to carry it, and ideally, a trailer. If I could only have one I’d go with the 12. You can always rent a big boat out west if you need one for a trip. Hope that helps...

ty, depending on your requirements for people/gear, the inflatable canoes are big fun. a 14' can be used solo or tandem and haul some gear. I haven't overnighted tandem with it, but solo is no problem.

I have a 12' Star Lightning Bug (24" tubes) and love it. It's wonderful with oars, but as everyone has said -- not the ticket as a paddle raft. I've rowed the Numbers on the upper Arkansas River in Colo three times with it (twice solo, & once with two teenagers). This year I've rowed it on the Salt, and Yampa/Green with a full load of camping gear -- plus day trips on the upper Arkansas in Colo. Many of the waves in the rapids on the Yampa/Green in early June were higher than the length of my Star. I'm in agreement with Cowper -- the 13.5' would be ideal with camping gear and longer river trips.
I took delivery in early Janurary of 05 -- I've never had a problem with it.

Folks made a good point about the Stars for paddle rafting. Do-able, but less than optimum for the reasons stated. To me, rowing a small raft approaches kayaking on fun factor; paddle rafting just hasn't struck my fancy to that degree yet, so I wasn't thinking about it from that point of view...

I think that "kayaking" point of view may also be part of why I like the waterbug series - more hull speed, so easier to do things like surf a wave.

It really depends where your coming from. People who move from hard boats to rafts seem to like boats with larger tubes and a narrower profile. People who move from big rafts to smaller one like a more typical raft shape. With a more typical raft shape you can behave more as raft than hard boat. The other thing to consider is material pvc or hyapolon (plastic or rubber) . Rubber is some what easier to work on and somewhat less likely to need work new PVC boats have improved a lot in this aspect. Rubber weighs a bit more but in 12 foot boat you will still be under 100 lbs. For most things in AR there is no reason for a boat over 12 feet, except to carry more people. I have 11'6' otter that has always been enough boat for AR. The raft shape combined with small tubes means one punch much bigger water. It has taken me and another on five night wilderness float, it has seen the upper gauley without problem and a lot of big water in between. When it was new it was the fastest boat I had paddled. I would avoid at all cost the air tributary series, they might be the slowest boat on the market. Maravia makes some smaller boats which are fun and fast. With a flat floor they slough big waves a bit more than an I-beam floor. I would avoid knock-off brands. NRS, Aire maravia have a history of standing by not only their products but their customers. I would get the NRS otter 12' the 11'6 is not in production any more.

I have a star 12ft. sb and we love it. we r2 r3n and r4 on all kinds of water from class 3 to class 4 and it is awesome. What need though is some foot cones glued in to the floor.

I have a 13.5 wonder bug and it's been everywhere from the Cheoha to the Middle Fork. I learned how to row a 12 ft that Kerry Moore has. And bought the 13.5 because of the extra room. Those 12 footers are really easy to handle and one person can load and unload one pretty eaisy.

I own a SOAR S-16, a 16-foot SB that comes with the scupper holes plugged, but they can be opened easily for SB capabilities. The same boat is available in 12- and 14-foot models. They are constructed of Hypalon for durability, and they haul a load while being very fun.

A few months ago (May) I took mine on the Buffalo fully loaded with what seemed like a ton of gear and was easily able to keep up with lighter loaded canoes. These boats will handle anything up to about Class IV water, and are a LOT of fun to paddle.

At 40" wide they are a little "fat", but longer paddle shafts easily accommodate that feature which works to make the boats all the more stable. I ran the LMF in SE Oklahoma at 9,600 cfs in the boat and it was a veritable blast running the chute above Presbyterian Falls. I will be taking it on a Lower Canyons trip in November and again paddling it fully loaded on Class III to IV rapids, as well as the flatwater that defines most of the Rio Grande. I fully expect the boat to meet or exceed all my demands for a responsive workhorse.

My S-16 has a capacity of 1,000 pounds, and can be outfitted for up to 4 paddlers, though I rigged it as a solo boat.

You can get info on the SOAR boats at http://soar1.com/.