Piton pin question

[stormcrow]

I've read several articles now about piton pins occurring to kayakers. I honestly don't know what this is. I've also read that uni-shock bulk head systems, such as in the new Jackson Hero's, help prevent this. Any light shed would be appreciated.

[Steph]

Not being a kayaker it is funny I'm attempting to answer this. A piton pin is where you get the nose of the boat stuck like a piton in some rocks. For example you go over a small ledge with a shallow pool. Your boat heads straight down and gets stuck in between several rocks, you are now stuck at an angle with the rear of your kayak at the top of the ledge and water is pouring over the top. NOT GOOD! Also a really good way to cause nasty impact injuries to your legs, hips, and lower back.

Just in case someone hasn't heard the term piton before, it is a metal stake used by climbers as an anchor. Before all these hi-tech climbing anchors the old school method was to pound these into some sort of crack in the rock and attach your rope. Placement being VERY important.

[Cowper]

http://playak.com/news.php?idd=103865042962" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Has some pictures showing boat and ankle damage resulting from piton pins.

The term is used for a range of situations - the extreme case being what Steph has described - you come over a waterfall but hit something and pin nose-on-bottom, stern up. But the same term is sometimes used to describe any time you are going through a rapid, and hit a rock head-on such that you lose all or most of your speed and momentum. This can happen even in a Class 1 or II rapid, if you are new to the sport, but it is a lot more common in Class III and up where multiple moves are required to run the rapid. Miss a move, hit the rock head on, and we'll say you "pitoned" it whether there is a waterfall involved or not.

[iYak]

http://playak.com/news.php?idd=103865042962

Has some pictures showing boat and ankle damage resulting from piton pins.

Ooow! That busted ankle was from going over a waterfall that was only 20 feet. Everyone should take a look at that picture if you are thinking about running waterfalls...

[ScottH]

Cowper defined it well. I will add my take. I usually look at a Piton (the striking of one end of the boat against an object, causing rapid de-celeration of forward momentum) and a Pin (The boat completely stops all movement and becomes stuck to the obstacle by the force of water) as two separate things. They can happen at the same time but can also happen independently of each other.

Think of a piton as a car crash. And in every accident there are two crashes. The first, being the boat striking the rock and second being your body striking the inside of the boat/the bulkhead. A really hard piton can result in denting or breaking of the boat hull upon impact. It will also transfer that energy into the boaters feet, ankles and on up into the neck causing broken bones and whiplash in the worst of cases.

The uni-shock bulkhead system, in itself, does not help “prevent” pitons. Only the boaters skill and maybe the design of the boat hull could help lessen the likelihood of a piton or pin. Some boats just ricochet off rocks better. But what it does related to pitons, is it absorbs a lot of energy and does not transfer it to the boater. So no broken ankles and less whiplash.

Some folks don’t like the Jackson system because they think it is a gimmick or that it is too flimsy and doubt it would hold up. I have this in my new Hero and now that I have seen and worked with it, I like it. Once it is set up correctly (which I have not completed yet but will before creeking season gets here) I think it will offer a really stable and safe feature to the boat.

Scott

[davidbob]

If you look up the definition of "piton" in the Old Boaters' Whitewater Dictionary and Almanac, there are 2 pictures: 1. Devil's Hollow Falls; 2. tomcat making his now famous left side run at USU.

[stormcrow]

Thanks for all the info guys.

[Clif]

hmmm

[gannon311]

a

[gannon311]

[quote="ScottH"]

Some folks don’t like the Jackson system because they think it is a gimmick or that it is too flimsy and doubt it would hold up.

for those folks watch this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQdMKtYvdQI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[okieboater]

First purchased a Mega Rocker for a self support run (ie it has a bunch of room in the back and paddles well with the load). Since then I have made a bunch of low water rock bashing runs in this boat out west and back east, including a lot of boofs that turned into more of a slide. I believe that big ole nose on the Mega really helps turn what in boats with a sharp bow would be a true piton into just a big time bump. Then the shock absorber bulkhead system takes action and turns what could have been a injury into a bounce. I like the look of several of the current offer of creek designs. Having said that the Mega Rocker is the first boat I have ever owned that took way better care of me on it's on than I had to take care of it. IE I might screw up my strokes but the Mega Rocker just kicks in and gets the job done in spite of my screw up.

Next I got a Super Hero for more down river runs. It has the same shock absorber bulkhead. Another forgiving boat.

Lots of people consider the Hero a creek boat and it works well on creeks. But, I got it because of the surfing and carving hull with all that foot room give me plenty of fun surf time since I long ago gave up attempting any of the "air"moves.

So I call my Super Hero my "play" boat because it surfs and carves like a dream but has all the foot room and comfort I really enjoy these days.

I have no connection to Jackson Kayaks except as a buyer of same at retail. I am sure other designs work well. But for me JK has these two designs dialed in for the kind of boating I enjoy. And, the safety features are top of the line.

[Fish]

Abstinence is the only sure fire way to prevent big-fall injuries. Just don't run them. If you do, you're taking on some serious risk of ending up disabled. No technology can eliminate that risk enough to count on it, and having shock absorbers, etc. in your boat might just lead to a false sense of security.

A better idea is to strive to boat within your abilities. Things go wrong, bad judgements are made, etc. - the river is a dynamic thing and that makes it risky but it also makes it exciting and worth doing. But if I'm getting into my boat, I want to be confident I can make it to the next eddy without getting hurt badly... without relying on safety equipment.

Buy good equipment and learn how to use it to save yourself and others and then strive to paddle as though you will never use any of the safety equipment you spend so much money on.

- Fish

[waterhog]

that kiffmeyer piton was quiet a bit more than 20 feet judgin by what i seen

[RomanLA]

I usually look at a Piton (the striking of one end of the boat against an object, causing rapid de-celeration of forward momentum) and a Pin (The boat completely stops all movement and becomes stuck to the obstacle by the force of water) as two separate things.

That pretty much describes my paddling style this fall! Lol

Check out the piton at 1:30...no clue how he has never been hurt!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCnT5Ej6Pwo

[A Savage spanke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQdMKtYvdQI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

no broken ankles