Firearms in national parks

[Butch Crain]

I have mixed feelings about this, but apparently there's some momentum in the US Senate to allow it - article @ http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... IUD60J.DTL

[RIORESIDENT]

1911 modle A in the console, and the clip in the glove box. anywhere i travel outside my county. I would much rather deal with a ticket for what ever that might be, than need it and not have it.

More often than not, it is even holstered, and laying somewhere in easy reach around camp. of course I travel the border lands more than anything. Never needed it, and hope I never do.

Rio~

[Crane]

Even though I'm probably among the top ten most liberal (progressive!) folks on this board, even I think responsible folks should be able to be armed on extended river trips. I've never had to use a weapon on a trip, but I have had occassion to have one ready...

[Chester]

First:
Crane, great, candid, declaration and statement :)
Secondly:
I am a LifeTime NRA member and CHL holder.
I did not read the article, as I can guess the jist of it. Some 48 states now allow some form of concealed and/or open carry, via some method of controlled issuance. So naturally, I am for any new laws that may expand territory for that purpose.

[grant]

Even though I'm probably among the top ten most liberal (progressive!) folks on this board, even I think responsible folks should be able to be armed on extended river trips. I've never had to use a weapon on a trip, but I have had occassion to have one ready...

last beer in the cooler?

[Zach]

last beer in the cooler?

I doubt it's anything that serious, having to have one ready is a far cry from shooting to kill.

[Arkayou]

To me a criminal will not follow the law. So make a law for no firearms in national parks and you end up with a bunch of mostly defenseless folks following the law while the criminal will not. I really thought we were supposed to be able to bear arms?

Same argument for overall gun control. Take arms away from those that follow the law and only criminals who do not follow the law will have them (of course law and military will to but that won't help when the gang in the city is bustin' into your hood)

[Zach]

That argument works for protecting your house, but in a national park the regulation is to prevent poaching and protect forest service police.

[JBradley]

.. and that is exactly why the term "responsible" was used.

Poaching and shooting of forest service personnel isn't going to happen if law abiding citizens are carrying guns. If someone is poaching or shooting at law enforcement,then they were most likely going to do it anyway reguardless of regulations.

[Zach]

I'm just saying the argument doesn't translate to the national forest very well.
If the goal is to keep someone from breaking into your house, you could argue a gun could help.
If the goal is to stop poaching, no guns is the way to go. There is no way that more guns in the national park will help the police stop poaching.

Though the law abiding citizen argument is a different story. There is a balancing act and some could argue that the gain in rights to law abiding citizens to have a gun in the park outweighs the gain to the park police.

[sugarmtngal]

It would be security to legally be able to holster a gun out in the Federal Parks & Wildreness.... About 15 years or so ago a few gals died on the Appalacian Trail (PA state)- murdered- I bet if they could defend themselves with a piece they would be alive today!

[Arkayou]

about those AT girls.
I have heard about disapearances like this last murder of that girl hiking by herself. A gun would totally help them defend themselves.

Of course if an evil murderer has befriended them they may not be on guard about using their gun or getting out from their pack or whatever. But clearly there is a need for people to be able to defend themselves on public property as well as private property.

And to me the law enforcement in the park have weapons to protect themselves, much like a policeman, but a policeman must realize that every suspect or detainee could be a threat and have a weapon.

I don't see how that is different from a Park Officer or Ranger or whetever. I mean to have a weapon is one thing, but to have a weapon and some illegal game is another you know?

[bayoukid]

I am in the boat with Arkayou. I strongly feel that if it isn't allowed would only effect the honest folk whom are doing right when they do carry. As far as criminals, poachers, etc, they will do it if it is legal or illegal.

Also, I see it as a stepping stone for total gun control and anti hunters.

That argument works for protecting your house, but in a national park the regulation is to prevent poaching and protect forest service police.

I honestly don't feel that poachers, whom are taking game illegally, will stop just because it is illegal to have a pistol with them.

Also, I did a search on Rangers killed in the line of duty. However, they say the following list is not complete due to limited information. I don't know if that means there are more killed than what is shown or simply the information on exactly how the loss of life occured. I would think the latter.

National Park Rangers Killed in the line of Duty

• The Rangers:
  * Jeff Christensen - 31, Rocky Mountain National Park Colorado July 29, 2005
  * Suzanne Roberts - 36, Haleakala National Park, Sept. 2004
  * Tom O’Hara - 41, Katmai National Park & Preserve plane crash in December 2002.
  * Kris Eggle - 28, Organ Pipe National Monument in 2002.
  * Cale Shaffer - 25, Denali National Park, Alaska, plane crash on Mt McKinley, June 19, 2000.
  * Steve Makuakae-Jarrell - 47, Kaloko-Honokohau National Historical Park, Hawaii 1999.
  * Joe Kolodski - 36, Great Smoky Mountain National Park in 1998
  * Michael A. Beaulieu - Seasonal Park Ranger Michael A. Beaulieu, 23, was killed in an automobile accident while responding to a wildfire call in Bryce Canyon National Park, Utah. Monday, August 26, 1996
  * Randy Morgenson - 54, Sequoia-Kings Canyon NPs, drowned while on solo backcountry patrol in July, 1996
  * Ryan Waltman - 23, Yellowstone NP. July 1994
  * Robert Mahn Jr. - 51, Yellowstone NP. January 1994
  * Robert Lewis McGhee Jr. - Gulf Islands National Seashore, 1990.
  * Duane P. McClure - 35, drowned during a solo canoe patrol in Yellowstone, May 1980.
  * Ward W. Hall - automobile accident Grand Canyon National Park. July 16, 1979
  * Gregory Burdine - 25, died in an accident while pursuing a vehicle for speeding in the Colonial National Historical Park, Virginia. November 26, 1977
  * James P. Fleetwood - automobile accident. July 5 1077
  * Kenneth Patrick - 40, Point Reyes National Seashore in 1973.
  * John C. Fonda - Drown, Grand Teton National Park, Wyoming. March 9, 1960
  * Gale H. Wilcox - hypothermia, Grand Teton National Park, Wyoming. March 9, 1960
  * Charles R. Scarborough - Assistant Chief Ranger Charles R. Scarborough was killed in a rock slide in Yosemite National Park, June 21, 1954
  * Karl Andrew Jacobson - 22, Acadia National Park November 13, 1938
  * Fred Johnson - drown in the Colorado River, Grand Canyon, Arizona. February 20, 1929
  * James Alexander Cary - 31, shot by bootleggers Hot Springs National Park. March 12, 1927

I'm not seeing but one by a "firearm" and that was by a "bootleger" in Hot Springs National Park. Most drown or was killed in a car accident. I seen one drown in a canoe accident. I hope they don't outlaw river runs. :shock:

[RPG]

"James P. Fleetwood - automobile accident. July 5 1077 "


Must have meant "chariot" accident.

[Butch Crain]

A couple of points -

- the article really doesn't put forth a viewpoint, just reports the proposed change. The mixed feelings are mine.

- to clarify, the proposed change is for the National Park system, not the national forest

- it could be that the reason why no park police have been killed is specifically because weapons are not allowed.

- I've owned and used weapons for hunting for over 40 years. Don't care if registration is required because I don't plan on doing anything illegal with my weapons.

- Maybe the regs should be changed to allow CHL holders to carry weapons. Growing up in the rural south and spending virtually every working day for the last 30 years in the woods, I can tell you it's plinkers that are a danger. Not sure I want Joe Sixpack shooting at turtles on the Buffalo while me or my friends or family are on it