H3 vs Burn vs 4Fun

[Mike_P]

Along the lines of similar posts in this forum reviewing the H3, the Burn, & ideal river runners/creekers, here's my dilemma:

I paddle an H3 medium size (245) & I'm always intrigued by comparisons to the Burn because I've only been kayaking a year & not sure I appreciate the nuances between the two & trying do decide whether to upgrade.

I'm looking to "upgrade" to something a little newer that's a river runner (which is mostly what I do--class 2 & some class 3) & trying to decide between something on the play side (i.e. Jackson 4Fun) & the creekside (i.e. a Burn). I'm not interested in serious play moves (vertical work, etc) nor big/steep creeks. Just having a blast on the Mulberry, Lee Creek, St. Francis, etc.

The Pyranha message board suggested for my size (5'9" 187 lbs) that I stick with the M Burn unless I plan to do class IV & V at which point he recommended the L for my size for added volume.

My only real issue with my H3 is that it's hard to roll, but I'm not sure if it's the boat or the paddler. It's also a little edgy in squirrly water, but again boat or paddler?

My understanding is the 4Fun & Burn both are much easier to roll than the H3, but could someone explain why? I stay upright most of the time on my H3, but it seem hard to roll up when I don't.

Thanks for the advice!

[Mike_P]

Since nobody could understand my "schizophrenic" post I'll reply to myself :-).

Thanks to Mike B for letting me demo his 4Fun at canoe school! It was pretty easy to roll. I think I answered my own questions.

The H3 is very sharp on the sides & I think that's what makes it harder to roll. I heard nothing but good things about the Burn & Fun series all weekend.

It seems most agree that the Fun series has enough "river running" abilities to cover most of the rivers around here and also allows you to play.

Any other thoughts?

[Jodie B]

Heres a quicky.I have a h3 245 like yourself.I've had it for 3-4years now?I pretty much learned to roll with it.The first year it was hard for me to roll,had to give it my all.Now its no problem what so ever.I beleive my hipsnap was just weak and improper form.The h3 is a little harder to roll but as you said"I stay up right most of the time",thats becouse of the flat hull design.Its a great boat for what you paddle. I too would like to paddle the Burn.IMO it's a nice mix of the m3&h3.I want to paddle bigger,steeper water and thats what I believe I need,we'll see.Still love my h3. Good Luck, Jodie B

[Mike B]

Mike,

I'm glad you enjoyed paddling the 4 Fun on Sunday. If you can make it down to central AR then I will be happy to let you demo the boat all day (maybe the Cadron, Mulberry, Big Piney or Lee Creek if I cen get up that way).

If you are planning on keeping the H3, then by all means buy a 4 Fun. If you can have only one boat then the decesions/compramises are more difficult. I'm not that familiar with Pyranha boats, but they have a great reputation and you see a lot of them on the water.

From what you describe, the Fun series will probably better suit you paddling needs, especially as you advance. The Fun surfs great, carves on waves, and spins really easy. It also rolls easy and has good primary and secondary stability. At 61 gallons, there is not much the 4 Fun can't take on with a skilled paddler; although it is not a steep creek boat by any means.

The Fun will allow you to do much more in the play department than the H3 or Burn. Keep in mind that the H3 and Burn are not "full-on" creek boats either.

As far as rolling, the Fun series rolls easy beacuse of several reasons: low backband, low rear cockpit height, secondary stability, comfortable fit and edge design.

Some boats are harder to roll than others but I would not let that be your primary decesion maker.

What it comes down to is I think you will gain more with the 4 Fun, and loose more with the others in the compramise.

[okieboater]

Hard to either get or give good feedback on boats these days.

Lots to consider.

I have had a lot of Creek boats, The one that worked well for me was a Skreem. Since the Skreem I went thru a couple other creekers including a Embudo.

Some consider the Burn a darn good creek boat, some consider it a river runner. I wanted it more for it's creeking ability and that is what I purchased mine for. So far the Burn has done fine for me.

I go thru a lot of boats, but the river runner boat I always come back to is my RPM Max. I'm not much of a new school playboater. The Max is a fine boat for my weight and what I do. And it, rolls like a champ.

Been working with the Burn for maybe 6 months now. It took me a while to get it outfitted and dialed in. Been on some easy stuff and the most creek type runs have been Pine and Clear Creek down in Clayton OK area.

I thought the Burn just excelled on those runs. The Pine run was a bit low. Most of the drops there were just pin ball runs with rocks every where and you had to make spins, reverse moves and such to do the moves. The Burn did excellent in that environment. On Clear Creek, it was good water. The Burn handled the funny water and just powered thru the reversals and boofs. On easier creek runs like Nogo, Big Piney etc the Burn is nice and comfy. Not nearly as fast as my RPM, but a lot more room for my legs and feet.

The Burn has hi sides at the knee area. And, it is a lot harder to roll than my RPM. I have to keep my head way down and do a nice hip snap. I'm hoping I get my technique down so the Burn rolls a lot easier for me.

As far as taking care of me. One of the Pyranha tech reps told me the Burn was a "point and go" boat and so far, I agree. Any issues I have had, have been my problem, not the Burn's.

Leland Davis is a class 5plus serious creeker and runs it all in a Burn and sez that is his favorite creek boat.
http://brushymountainpublishing.com/ncc ... inics.html
Leland did a trip out west and up in BC and ran some serious hair in his Burn, at one time he had a bunch of pictures of that trip on his web site.

I'm extremely happy with my Burn. It could easily be both a river runner and pretty darn good creek boat, if a person only had one boat.

I'm not much on new school short boats, had several including a Juice that came closest to what I wanted, my run of the mill surfing machine is my RPM Max. Now that I have the Burn, I could probably get by with just it as a do it all boat for river running and creeking.

This is my first Pyranha boat. I have to admit that I heard a lot of good things about the H3 and thought about buying one. When Leland Davis came out with a detailed review of the Burn, his comment was "At first he thought Pyranha had taken one of his favorite designs, the H3, and prolly screwed it up. Instead he found that the Burn had fixed all the problems he had found in the H3 - and he would run anything in his Burn that he felt qualified to run.

This post rambles around but I'm just giving you my feedback. I think if I was you and owned a H3, I would probably just keep the H3 until I found a really good buyer from it. As far as the Burn, I think it would make a fine all around river runner boat for most boaters, and the same for most creekers.

[Mike_P]

Thanks everyone for the great advice!!!