What's the BEST creekboat for AR?

[Dannyboy]

OK, so I'm about to wrap up college and start paddling a whole lot more. Being from Searcy County, it's only a matter of seat time before I find myself on some of the steep creeks of the area. My 4Fun ain't gonna cut it, so what's the best creek boat for someone on Arkansas creeks, and what makes a boat the best for here? I'm 5'11" and about 210 lbs if that helps.

[druse]

Best advise to you would be to DEMO and find what best suites you. There are so many, all good designs. I'd start by reading reviews. We all have our opinions, you have to make your own.

[okieboater]

Man, that is a difficult question.

Druse has it right, test paddle all you can. Go to NOC and spend a day or so testing on their little play spot. Hard to make up your mind cause there are great designs out there and most are good. Differences are not that much and depend on the boaters likes and dislikes.

I just went thru all that decision process and at the end of months of testing it was touch and go between a mamba and Burn. I chose the Burn and love it.

Having said that, there is a ton of good creekers out there and more just announced.

Man, you are gonna have some fun working out this project.

[Lemme Hucknboof]

I chose the mamba 8.0, hard decision, ended up picking boat by color wanted, availability at right price etc. cause the boats were too hard to choose between. Your welcome to give it a test run in an around NWA.
Levi-

[druse]

Also depends upon how much you have to spend. If you're going new, several of them have good reviews. Nomad, Magnum, Burn, Habitat,Mystic, and Solo. If you go used, look to the proven styles that have been being paddled. The Micro was a proven model for years, and is still some folks boat of choice. There's lots of variety amoung the AR boaters. Ask to demo if you get a chance. You can try mine out anytime. I understand Don at Quachita Outdoor Outfitters in Hot Springs has Demo boats available, give him a call, he'll be happy to get you going.

[Dannyboy]

Thanks guys. I already learned to try before I buy if possible. (anyone remember my Z?) Anybody paddled a Dagger Nomad? What are some particular likes and dislikes y'all have found among various boats/manufacturers? Give me some food for thought as I research all the possibilities and try to line up some demos over the next couple of months. Thanks!

[Dabney]

I'm about that same size ,also looking for a creekboat. But used. Maybe we can share notes.

[Cowper]

Aw, gee, ask an EASY question next time.

Test drives are good, but I find that test drives in a pool don't always tell me what I need to know about how the boat will handle on moving water.

I'd say it is really more about what creeks you want to do, and your personal paddling style.

Micro-creeks - shorter is better, gets you into must-make eddies, allows rapid direction changes.

Major creeks at flood - too short, too round, is hole bait.

Micro-creeks - often involve a hike into or out of, so weight can be a factor. The Jackson boats are lighter. But since you're just wrapping up college, at 5'-11, 210#, you're going to have the strength that you might not notice 5# more, so I'd focus more on choosing the hull that fits your paddling style.

Micro-creeks - are often run at lower levels, either because that is all the water you got, or because it dropped out while you were on it. A boat with very rounded, soft edges is a plus on shallow runs.

Boats that have "creek" volume, but some edges - like the Burn, are a lot of fun on creeks like Richland. The edges make the boat more fun to play and surf in, the volume keeps you safe. Many of us get to Richland with two boats, and often choose the low volume play boat even though we would be a bit safer in the creek boat.

One more to consider: A WaveSport "Y". You're the right size for that boat, it is a proven design, and has some edge for good play. But it is an excellent boat for most of Arkansas' creeks, and, because it is an "old" design, you can find brand new ones DIRT CHEAP. The relatively flat bottom also wears more evenly on shallow, rocky runs - a highly rockered boat will develop a thin spot under the seat faster.

Although I am very guilty of buying "new" designs in the search for the "perfect" boat, I think my advice to others would be to look around and see what boats are showing up the most with other paddlers. The Y is proven, the Micro is proven, etc. Or watch 5 whitewater videos, and see what the pros and semi-pros are paddling most often. Even if you buy one of these and later decide something else is better for you, you'll at least have a boat that will move on the used boat market.

[Dabney]

Not to sound old fashioned here,but would those boat do well for the ladies?

[Cowper]

Not to sound old fashioned here,but would those boat do well for the ladies?

Smaller people (regardless of what genetic factor caused them to be smaller) may find many of the popular creek boats a bit too big. The one down side to a high volume creek boat is that there is a lot of surface area for the river to push around on. So smaller folks should at least consider getting one of the boats that is sized for them - Like a Micro 230 instead of a Micro 240, or a Jackson Punk Rocker instead of the Rocker, as examples.

[Big Daddy D]

If you could only have one or the other would you get a good all-around river runner or a full-on creek boat? Example: Diesel or Habitat? Mamba or Nomad?

How big of a difference does a creek boat make in a creek compared to a river runner? Are there disadvantages to having a creek boat vs. a river runner on a river like the Cheoah?

I'm leaning toward a Diesel or Mamba because they may work better in more situations. Is that a proper assumption?

Thanks,

BDD

[okieboater]

I went to NOC and demoed Burn, Mamba and Super Hero.

All good boats. I wanted a general creeker (not the full on versions) one that I could be comfy in doing down river and some Cossatot / Upper Richland style creeking - getting too old and stove up for the real steepies.

Super Hero was my choice going in. after testing, it was last choice. For me it felt too "tippy" unless I paid close attention to posture etc.

Surprised that the Mamba was almost tied for first choice. I would feel comfy in a Mamba. In fact I almost started looking for a used Mamba but not that many listed that I could find.

Something about the Burn tho, just felt right for my paddling style. I am a definite old school boater and the Burn has a new school bottom with some softened edges. Have not been able to hit Cossatot yet but I am totally happy with the Burn so far for my style of boating.

Like Cowper, I want to buy used just to protest the high cost of boats these days, having said that, temptation jumps in there and I fell in love with a new Burn.

[RIORESIDENT]

Im starting to look for a creek boat before heading west. please tell me about the outfitting diferences in the boats that you demo'd okie


pros/cons?

[okieboater]

The Burn ended up fitting me well. But, I like to outfit boats to fit me and it took me months of work and some luck. The original large burn had the small seat and it did not fit, took months for pyrana to get large seats over here. The thigh hooks bent and there is a retro fit bolt out and I got that after asking. There is another stronger mod out there on the internet for thigh hooks but I have not been able to get it made. On the hip pads, I just could not get them to work for me, then I ran into a gent named Bill Eades out of St Louis and he set me up with a set of the old pyrana hip pads that strapped on the adjustment tape. Dinver the USA Nat Rep helped me a bunch. At this point I have to say both Bill and Dinver bent over backward to help me, great guys to work with. At this time, I got the Burn pretty much dialed in to my fat butt and hips etc and am very pleased with it. There is a ton of foot space in the Burn and I like that. Bottom line, it did not come out of the box with what I needed to make it fit me, but with some help from Bill and Dinver and personal work, I am totally happy with the outfitting. New ones may not have the problems I had. On the same token, many boaters may not be as demanding on boat fit as I am. My first pyrana kayak.

The big Mamba I tested felt really good right out of the box. Had the typical Dagger outfitting which I am very familiar with. My guess is had I purchased that boat, I would have made minor but no major outfitting mods. It was a hard decision between the Mamba and the Burn. NOC wanted full list price on kayaks (at one time someone told me over the years I had purchased more private boater kayaks from them than anyone) so I declined to buy boats from them. Don at OOO does give every ACC member some help on things and made me a fair deal on a boat he had in the shop there in Hot Springs and I purchased it. Guess where my new boat purchases are going to be made in the future.

On the Jackson Super Hero, the NOC demo had been ridden long and hard as a demo boat and might not have been as up to date on outfitting as the new models are. I did not "feel" locked in with the back strap setup in NOC's test boat. I think the 2007 JK outfitting is a lot better and if I were buying a JK boat new, I would certainly be open to the new outfitting. I went there to NOC to buy the Super Hero. I liked the boats weight and it rolled a lot easier than the big mamba or big burn. The test super hero tho just did not "feel" right to me on the test area there at NOC. I really do like what EJ is doing with his boats and the way he does business and one of these day's will prolly buy a boat from him just because he needs our support. I have to say that the new burn rolls a lot harder than my RPM Max and I am having to work on my technique to roll the Burn. My guess is that is gonna be true of all the new wide thick at the midsection new school boats. The Burn is also a lot slower than my RPM Max. I can do attainments at the Tulsa Wave in my RPM Max that I either cannot do in the Burn or just barely do. Again, my guess is that is the way things are. Us old school guys just have to acclimate and many of the younger boaters never have seen the speed that is there with the longer designs from the old days.

I suggest you go test drive all the new designs you can. I hear lots of good things about all the new creek/river running designs out there.

[RIORESIDENT]

thanks okie, its been a long time since i bought a new boat. In fact, it was in 1996, when the hot new play boat was the acrobat 270 Pyrahna. At that time, it was very typical to add foam everywhere, and it did take time. I was just curious about these new boats, and the "out of the box" feel. You answered my questions perfectly.

thanks for your time.