raft frames.....lets brainstorm

[RIORESIDENT]

as some of you know I have been building frames for a while. some have been adjustable, some have been fully welded, and some have had a combination of both. It seems to me that poeple who own several boats, also own several frames.

my thoughts on adjustable frames are......

1) they are good if you use them, and allow others to use them. bay size doesn't really matter as long as they are somewhat standard.

2) they are good if you include a plane in your shuttle logistics.

3)you are just getting started with rafts and are not sure what the future holds for your load.

Im leaning more towards building fully welded frames that are load specific. Ie, I have a 178 qt cooler hence the bay for it is ....etc.
I have two dry boxes, those bays are...etc
I want a bay for a drop bag, and that bay is..etc

to maintain adjustability for the oarsman/woman machining holes along the dbl rail sides to move the oartowers back/forward.

It seems as if most frames out there are pretty similar, and im trying to get the best function for the least amount of $$ for the customer.

Im thinking also that building hoops for the oarlocks/pin setup is the way to go, they would have the almost standard 10 degree lean. If another smaller hoop was added to the top of that (verticle) it would make a good location for the biminie mount, and keep it clear of the oars.

what do you think?

[scott yarbrough]

If your doing day floats, and you stack three rafts on top of each other all on one trailer, then you are also stacking three frames. If the seat cross bar is easily adjustable, it is easy enough just to loosen up the fittings and then knock it out of the way to stack the third frame. If you mark your spot with a black magic marker then it always goes right back where "you" want it after a friend has rowed it or it has just come off the top of the stack. Number of passengers, coolers, drybags, gear, and whether or not it is a day float or a overnight trip dictates to me where everything will be slung to keep the rafts balance. If it is adjustable, you just simply move the cross bars around till everything fits.

I have seen some really nice custom double rail welded frames, but they were only good for epic journeys and not a simple day float.

[Crane]

I think the welded metal is a better frame. Having said that, my frame is too big and too heavy to be convenient. Thus, I think that the idea of having three (or 4) separate welded metal bays you can lift, stack, trailer, store and generally deal with better than one big frame.

[okieboater]

I'm a newbie rower, but here is my thoughts.

I have a 18 ft Aire Cataraft. It is a really nice big water craft. I'm happy with the boat and the frame I have.

My frame is welded steel conduit. I got lucky and had a trusted and very experienced bud to design and build my first frame.

This frame is a big time strong 5 bay frame. Think of a train freight car and that is the strength and space this frame has.

I have coolers, dry boxes etc to match the bays. But they are sized that almost anything out there is going to fit with room to spare.

For a cat boat this big, it is very comforting to know my frame is not going to break or even bend. It is that strong.

Having said that it takes a lot of help to move this frame around. On a good day for me, I can get it on my low bed trailer by myself, but help is really appreciated.


I just purchased a Aire 143 self bailer regular raft.

After a lot of thought, I ended up getting an aluminum adjustable frame.

What I like about this frame is the weight, the adjustability of the bay widths.

A benefit of this setup is I could carry the raft and broken down frame in my pick up truck. Even assembled, I could get the frame up on a roof rack.

Truth of the matter is, I doubt if I will ever break down the self bailer raft frame very often, but it is there if I want to. After I figured out the bay size, I may not change the frame much. I did set up the frame and kept putting various things in before making up my mind what went where. This could have been estimated I guess, but the adjustable bays really made me feel better about the whole decision making process.

There is not a iron clad answer in my opinion.

On the big cat boat frames, my take is a welded frame is what I want. Either steel or aluminium. I just do not trust the adjustable set ups even tho Down River looks really strong and should fill the bill quite well

On the smaller self bailer rafts like my 14 footer, I do not think it matters that much. If I would have known exactly what I was doing and could spec out the bays - a welded steel frame would have been just fine. On the other hand, the break down aluminium frame is there if I need it or elect to not pull a trailer.

It all depends on what you want to float, what you want to carry in the boat, what help you have on the design and how much money you have to spend.

one thing for sure no matter what the frame is made of, I think the oar stands need to be adjustable like Down River is or how Rio mentions.

I think there may be some guide lines that apply but no single answer.

[Randy Dodson]

I don't have a raft but it hasn't stopped me from planning for the frame I want when I do get one.

One thing I don't like on many of the frames I've seen is the oar towers. They look like they would be very exposed to stress. The frames by Cambridge Welding look bombproof, with braced oartowers.

[RIORESIDENT]

muchas, grassy a** on the feed back.

scott, I completly understand the load factor on multi boat loads, and im thinking that the proto will accom those needs, however my design at this point is for those epic jouneys. not so much the day floats.

okie, your right, it does take some doing, and maybe 75-80 percent of the frames i have been around, rowed, or owned, have been break-downs. and other than "tweeking" they were fine. Its coming to me that outfitting is almost as good as foam for hard shells.

but once its there , its there

I've got three set-ups, on three rafts for differnet stuff. the small cat.....7.5 smokers with pin/clips set. (class V set up) large marge..., the maravia, hasn't gotten "crazy" with her new lincons, but running solid ash smokers on her as well, 10's. rapped and stopped. haven't seen the "new" one yet but just picked up on Avon pro 18' , and going raps ands stops on her as well. keep your eye out for a disco ball

crane,,, Im with you on that Im thinking if we/you/them/us/ had a general idea of boat, we/you/them/us/ might be able to build sections.......I keep running into 3-4 issues on that one though. fully welded, break down sections would be sweets....

I have been involved in one frame that was broken down for transport, and it was pretty ruff.




lets keep up the thoughts, i appreciate it

[robkanraft]

I’ve got two small boats, two frames, both NRS cargo style. I’ve knocked them both down to transport inside a van for Western extended trips. It’s a bit of a pain, mark everything with a Sharpie and take a few extra bolts just in case. Scott’s right, we do a lot of day tripping and stacking and for that, quickly movable oar towers are a good thing, as is making your cargo frame into a day frame by removing extra parts when not needed.

If I could get it right the first time, and had a way to transport it, I would like a welded cargo tripping frame for my larger boat. No more than we get to boat, I find I spend too much time trying to tweak the adjustables trying to get it to feel right, or compensate for the load or get the best angle and pull on the oar towers etc. Being able to drop it in and go without too many options would be comforting for me. I like the smooth rounded corners of a welded frame. I haven’t figured out the best order of the bays. Should the rower have a seat, drybox or cooler to sit on? I want the front passenger on a bench/river table with a drop bag below. I like the idea of the angled welded “rainbow” towers. I need some degree of compensating for different rower’s leg lengths.

I’ve been really tempted find an interested welder, buy some SidsSports frame corners and start experimenting.

[okieboater]

Rio's your welder man to experiment various setups!!

Load em up and head south to Texas

[robkanraft]

I've actually considered building a cargo prototype out of PVC plastic pipe and joints to visualize what I think I want, and then haul it to the welder. What are your thoughts about the rowers kick bar. I like the concept, but the NRS sometimes seems to eat a lot of real estate on a trip. Been thinking about having a hoop welded on to one of my crossbars, but then again, it becomes "fixed".

[okieboater]

I forgot this -

I rowed on a trip with a gentleman who had a 16 foot self bailer raft.

I really did not get to check out his frame setup till I saw him break it down at the take out and that is always a hectic time.

He had a aluminum welded basic frame - best as I could determine.

but the main rowing compartment was an aluminum drop in with plywood floor that I saw him lift out, but did not see how it was secured.

Everyone was rushing like crazy to derig and start driving so I forgot to visit and ask questions.

That looks like a great solution to give the rower good footing and I bet rocket boxes could be secured there as well.

[okieboater]

NRS has a kick bar that secures to a solid cross bar.

Have one on order, more info when I get it and get to row with it.

[robkanraft]

Okie, would love to hear back when you get that new kick bar. I knew it was out there, but called NRS one day and couldn't nail down specific measurements. I need to know how wide it is, and deep. My 13 Vanguard is smaller, make that less tube depth than a conventional 14, so I was afraid it might be too big. If it would fit, looks like an awesome accessory. What you saw were plywood dropboards, ususally hung with cam straps. Think they are best used on bigger boats to protect the floor and add gear storage. I've played with the concept for my little boat, may add one yet but think the hassle and weight would not be worth it. My goal is to stay as light as I can.

[RIORESIDENT]

Rob, pvc would be a good idea, or another to visualize your layout might be to get some kiddo's sidewalk chalk blow up your boat, and trace several patterns on the drive way. then go to measuring out your gear, and make lines that would be where the rails would be. then go to your PVC, and then to a welder.

Rob, several options on having a foot bar, i agree that the nrs does occupy alot of space. for more adjustment, im just assuming possibly for your wife? locate the kickbar where its comfy for you, and mark with a marker the tube, and the lowpro, then do the same for your wife. take fittings off, find someone with a drill press, its pretty tuff to drill acuratly with a hand drill, and drill em out. then just use pins to secure.

as far as sitting goes, i have a big cooler that always goes. sometimes i sit on it covered with a paco pad, and sometimes i use a DRE flip seat.




okie, the captains floor is a terrific. makes it alot safer to stand up to eyeball down stream, and like that idea much more than scouting bars, or side plates. never used them, they just look dangerous. to get a good fit for the floor, it needs to be susupended, and ride in-between 2 good solid objects that ALWAYS ride in the same location. Ie....the big boat, the cooler goes under my tush, and the the rowers compartment, and in front of that the drybox. elevate the floor so that its just about 1-2 inches abouve the bottom line of the boxes, and it wont have any play in it. you can for sure use plywood, and just cut some ovales on the corners for your straps. i suggest using something for a texture effect, I have used spray on bedline in the past.

[robkanraft]

Here's what I'm thinking for my hard floor...Oreo sandwich. For the last two years, I've been using blue Walmart camp pads and 3M spray glued to the top and bottoms of my cooler. My logic was that if the cooler rubbed on the floor it would be softer and less abrasive. Same for the passenger who sat on the cooler. So now I'm thinking plywood sandwich with rounded corners. The material is tuff so you could stand on it no-slip without too much damgage, and cheap so you could replace it annually if you are a neat-freak. I'm just not crazy about rowing on a cooler. I felt like I was too high up and off balance, but remember I''m talking from the perspective of small boats. Last year I used a low-rise custom flip seat, but didn't have a cooler under it, just a drop bag with gear.

[okieboater]

I'll either PM or post info on the NRS new design Kick bar soon as it gets here and I test it. Looks like a winner design to me.

I orginally ordered the standard NRS kick bar but soon as I set it up, knew I had made a mistake.

So, I have one for sale 60 inches wide, same for a NRS seat cross bar.

My plan for the new kick bar is I hope it ends up maybe 12 inches or so back from the back of the front bay cross bar. I'm gonna get river rat ray in salida to sew me up a custom drop bag and hopefully can stash either a couple rocket boxes there or water jugs.

The original NRS seat cross bar did not work for me. Went to a Clavey flip seat bracket that holds the lo back seat in place and rests on the dry box.

I'm going for the dry box for rowers seat and putting the 125 qt yeti cooler up front.

I been putting on a couple layers of foam on my coolers for years, also put a foam cover inside the cooler that gets pushed down as food is consumed and ice melts. I cannot put a engineering rule on how much this helps, but it just makes sense to me and I may get another day out of the ice. I started out with the expensive gray foam, went to Wally World weldwood glue and whatever cheap chinese made pads they have on sale.

Experience learned. With Kayaks, you may spend a few bucks on foam outfitting - but when you load the kayak on your truck - your outfitting costs are close to zero or a few bucks.

With a raft (even tho I had outfitted my 18 ft catboat with a ton of help from guys like Walter Felton.) I thought I could do the self bailer on my on. WRONG, it is a learning experience.

I'm finding out that outfitting a raft or cataraft, the expense is only starting when you pick up the boat. Nothing is cheap either. Bottom line is, you have to be committed to spending a lot of money to buy a raft and set it up.

But, after all, it's all money well spent for "Toys". Anything related to having fun on water is money well spent in my opinion.