Old School Boats

[Lupe]

I recently posted a reply that any boat that will get you on the water is a good boat. And here's an interesting article that actually gives some serious thought to why picking up a really cheap older design might not such a terrible idea...whether you are new or not.

Good read here on Why is “old school” the “new school” of thought? A case for old school renaissance:

http://www.whitewaterdreams.com/archives/5540

I have seen this dynamic with myself as well as others I've paddled with. Big forgiving creekers and river runners will let folks tackle harder waters sooner, but there's a lot more to learn in a more sporty/edgy/playful boat which is going to give you a LOT more information about how to read water and how your boat interacts with the water. A "sporty" boat will give you much more immediate, obvious feedback if you have sloppy technique which you might not even notice in a big river runner. You need to assess your own learning style and learning curve...too sporty of a boat can scare away a less confident or adventurous beginner who may not persevere, but for some it can really help to ramp up your skills.

My first boat was a Riot Booster....wouldn't describe it as forgiving, but I definitely learned a lot in that boat! :myday"

[fzburk]

I'm a little skeptical of what some consider old school boats.Are you talking about a six year old RPM , some Wavesport X, Y or Z, or a twenty year old Pirouette or Dancer?

Safety is an issue to me, so boats older than about ten years are dangerous because of the plastic's age, not design.

I still enjoy paddling Outbursts, Rips and other 'long' boats, but their age is becoming an issue (as opposed to mine).

There are a number of the original Hollowforms out there that are a death trap. Not a good first boat choice.

I do believe someone first starting should take a beginner class (or whitewater school). Not sure of the outfitters in Arkansas and their expertise, but from what I've seen, I am concerned after watching some 'intermmediates' who say they have taken local classes.

A lot depends on the age of the boat, where/how it was stored, and if the outfitting is good enough to have a secure fitting.

Just my .02.

Mark

[Twindad]

The one thing that causes me to dismiss an older boat is the outfitting, specifically the back support. Of course this can usually be retro-fitted if you really like the old boat.

[mgood]

The less we talk about old boats, the more there are available for those that love them. Just saying.

It's a paddling progression- if you're comfortable in your boat, then you've been in it too long and need to try a different one. Always push your comfort level.

[Eric Esche]

The quality of the plastic in some old boats can vary from better than today's average plastic to catastrophic failure waiting to happen.

The Phillips Marlex CL-100 crosslinked resin used in the later Hollowforms was very much safer than the first yellow production boats made out of Marlex Cl-50 resin. Not much to worry about with the yellow perils as they almost all died in the first 5 to 10 years. The later Hollowform Riverchasers are a different story. IF they were kept out of the sun when stored, many of them will be perfectly still safe to paddle today. Some colors proved to be even more resistant to UV degredation than others. While I have had 2 early White Hollowform Riverchasers die of old age and UV degredation, I have a Black Hollowform that is almost in brand new condition, but it has been stored under cover almost all it's life and it was one of the last ones made. What I am saying is that you have to look at each boat to see if it is a good one. Most, but not all old plastics show signs of microfracturing before failure if you keep an eye on them. Their are also some known cases of boats failing at certain location due to manufacturing defects. Hollowform damaged a mold and then "Fixed it" by doing a very poor and amateurish welding that created both a hot spot AND an out of balance situation in one of their 4 molds, so for 2 years until they had the mold professionally repaired, 25% of their production was prone to an early failure in the nose and cockpit ring. Those boats are almost all gone now.

And it is not just plastic kayaks. I have a 1972 Mad River Endurall tandem canoe that is living up to its name, as it is still a very strong cargo barge for river camping. Uneven oven temperatures seem to have been the culprit in causing hundreds of delamnations in some models of Old Town Canoes, that were later sold off as livery canoes. Look at the takeout of a canoe livery sometime. It used to be a common sight to see almost every one with wavey bottoms.

Prijon Plastics and Savage "V" Plastics are example of boats lasting a VERY long time due to great polymers. I have 3 Savage boats and 2 Prijons that I expect to get another 20 years out of. New Wave boats also seem to have had a better than average plastic, at least in the Rogue and Mongoose models that I have owned or still own.

Dagger kayaks seem to last well from what I have seen.

I will let others pipe in here as to plastic from other manufacturers. Wavesport, Liquid Logic, Jackson, and other brands.

Eric Esche

Your milage may vary with other manufacturers