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[CAPTAIN ALEVE]

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[MaxTexan]

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[JTarver]

I'd be happy to donate a landscape design to the project with regard to streambank stabilization, wildlife habitat, aesthetic appeal regardless of season and ease of maint. I will also assist in installation. I'd also help anywhere else I could be useful.

Joe

[CAPTAIN ALEVE]

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[Eric Esche]

I want to say first that I am NOT AGAINST having the Rockport Wave built.

and I think that you have SOME good ideas.

You stated your ideas. I will tell you how I think and how I think many others will think. You are asking too much for one project that will not equally benefit enough of the ACC membership and would risk breaking things that are not broken and should not be harmed.

I do not think that some of the proposed ideas in your post should be done or worded that way. see quotes below:

Quote -"CUT THE ACC BUDGET TO THE MINIMUM – let’s tighten our belts until we get the wave built: ask chapters to forego their share of annual dues;"

I hope that the Chapters will each address SOME support for this project, but I would not expect every chapter to run with this idea to this level. I would not expect all of the other chapters to equally support a "wave project" on the White River below Beaver Dam either, but I hope it too gets built/constructed someday and have said I would put some sweat equity into accomplishing that goal if I am able to physically. Forgoing all of their annual dues to the chapters for this project "until we get the wavebuilt" will drive away some membership who do not see a fanatical need for a whitewater wave in another part of the state. NEWSFLASH - not everyone in ACC is a whitewater paddler and some of us who are or have been whitewater paddlers are not interested in a play boat hole several hours away.

Quote -"raise whitewater school registration fees specifically for the wave;"

I have only volunteered at one ACC whitewater school, but I observed a lot and asked a LOT of questions being new to the club and the state. And then attending board meetings for 4 years and hearing many of the details from those who were doing the work made me aware of many things I would not have been other wise. (YES ARTHUR, I really did listen to Everything you went over with us, and then remembered things when you were not in that position) The school's fees are very carefully examined and adjusted as needed every year as to what they need to have vs what the market will bear. Asking for yet more money to be added on like a tax, would add more risk to the school's sucess. Why don't you ask for a VOLUNTARY DONATION from participants instead? I think we both know the answer to that one.

Quote -"hold whitewater school at a free venue like Cadron Creek between public ramps at Highways 65 & 185 (an Ozark Society member has offered free access to an ACC event in the past at the five mile point) or the Spring River;"

First off - there ain't no FREE lunch. Every "venue" has it's expenses. Unless you are volunteering to take over the ACC whitewater school in it's entirety and guarentee it's practical and financial sucess, let the folks who run the school do what they know best. Risking breaking something of this size that is not broken is a major factor here. They have a working system that is amazing for the results that it gets with the use of a an always changing volunteer staff, and the basics have been honed through years of experience with the existing sites on the Mulberry River. While there are back up plans for alternative sites in the event of unacceptable weather/river conditions, the event is planned on using the Mulberry as it is the best availble to us.

If you want to add ANOTHER venue to try to raise funds for the Rockport Wave project, try going that route before messing with something that works like the Whitewater school. Given what it takes to host the Whitewater school, I suspect you would be challenged to find the qualified volunteers, although I suspect you might find enough potential students for another venue.

How come you did not add the rec school into your proposed targets of financial income?

Quote - "hold Rendezvous at a free venue like Rockport;"

Another Ox (if not MULTIPLE OXEN) NOT asking to be gored! Been suggested before, and again, there are expenses associated with any venue of this size, no matter where it is held. Same discussions as with whitewater school.

Quote -"sell T-shirts on the four tax free days of the year; ditto for a new whitewater video (we’ve got lots of members producing videos who could donate their efforts and materials);"

I think these are good potential ideas that you might get approval for (if there are not other problems that I do not know about associated with the Club's store) by having some new items whose profits would be dedicated to a sole project like the Rockport Wave

Quote - "eliminate renting meeting halls for Board meetings and supplying food at those meetings"

Been done at times in past and very sucessfully thanks to the generosity of, and hard work done by several individuals, but saving money here does not mean any more money would be committed to the Rockport Project, and those FREE venues still have costs. And the moving location of the board meetings, to allow everyone to have a chance of attending at least one sometime in an area near them, complicates finding those FREE venues, unless a chapter assumes this burden when ever it is in their area. From what I have seen of past few years, the board has gone to great lengths to reduce costs while still having productive board meetings that were open to the entire membership. I have personally missed attending the board meetings for the last year due to medical problems that prevented my attending, but I have not heard of any areas involving those meetings that suggest that they were areas of great wastage and I doubt it given the trend of all those that I did attend in the previous years.

My 2 cents worth, but it first boils down to "First, do no harm".

And I think a good route to go would be by asking your local chapter and it's president for backing of your ideas, after having done more research into the answers from the state officers and chairpersons that would be involved in these areas. Do not know whether you have done this or not yet, but I would if I was trying something like this.

Best wishes, Eric Esche

[okieboater]

Eric makes good points, worth listening to and considering.

I am not sure when I started working the ACC Canoe School but it has been a lot of years. At this point in time, Canoe School is working administratively as good as I have seen it. My advice is not to mess up something that is working.

I don't have the numbers to back this up but our last Canoe School seemed to be a lot less crowded than most I have attended. Even tho I think ACC Canoe School is one of the best return on investment for most students when it comes to WW instruction, in this terrible economy, this is not the time to raise fees. Lets face it, Canoe School is probably part of most families recreation budget which is one of the first budget lines to get cut in hard times.

[mgood]

I have got to say something:

Doesn't the "Rockport wave" already exist?! I never seemed to have noticed the need for a second ledge during my several years traveling to Malvern to surf. Seems like the upper ledge is working just as well as it always has.

No need to call for heads to roll in order to make a second of what you already have.

One ledge= luxury. Appreciate it.



Sincerely,

Your friends from flat-as-anything Louisiana

[CAPTAIN ALEVE]

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[okieboater]

Mike, I sat down and wrote my version of a detailed opinion on what you have posted in this thread. Being trained as a engineer I got down into details that would bring tears of pain or instant sleep to most readers of this message board

Went over it several times and I thought I was getting into a message board peeing contest and decided it was not the right venue to discuss what you have posted.

Appears to me this is a great discussion topic for next ACC BOD meeting. If it gets on the schedule, I hope it gets plenty of time to discuss. Better to have hours than minutes to get it all on the table.

I think what makes the ACC a great benefit to the sport is Canoe School, Rec School, Rendezvous, Surf and Turf, conservation, instructor development, clinics like rescue and WFR etc and yup a great resource to get people together to work for WW Parks.

I hope Rockport gets better as a WW Park, just do not think that should be the single thing the membership and the club's money goes to.

[Regud]

Went over it several times and I thought I was getting into a message board peeing contest and decided it was not the right venue to discuss what you have posted.

Thanks Dave!

[MaxTexan]

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[Fish]

I love the old guys a bunch (falling into that category myself these days), but I wonder if it should be a concern that I don't see MORE of a pissing contest on the msg board these days with some younger folks doing more of the pissing...? I hope the ACC gets plenty of input from and inspires passion in the younger generations in the coming years. Otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised to if attendance at Canoe School and other events goes into a fairly steady decline. If the board meetings, events, and especially message board are dominated by members with a minimum age of 50 who mostly agree with each other (not that that could ever happen, right?), I figure that would be a bad sign...

Just an observation. I certainly have no dog in the fight about spending money on Rockport, living more than 7 hrs away from it. I will say that I'd donate here in Kansas City big time to have even the worst wave at Rockport running all summer within two hours of my house. But whether it's Rockport or other things, if a healthy portion of the ACC budget goes to programs and goals of the "under 30" generations, I would say my money's being well spent. I've got a dog in that fight.

- Fish

[maggiepowell]

As the ACC Membership Chair, I do like to see productive discussions and suggestions appear on the message board. It allows me to gauge what the general membership is thinking and address those issues if necessary at BOD meetings. We've got one coming up in February and I think this post will definitely make the discussion.

I would also like to say that as my short time as Membership Chair I've seen a wide range of activities and events that appeal to both Whitewater and Recreational boaters. I think the club does an excellent job of using its resources and the natural resources we are given being in a state that has few dam-released streams and long periods without rain.

Of course, I would say that most of the Whitewater boaters would love to see the second ledge at Rockport, but would making those changes proposed in Captain Aleves' post benefit the club as a whole...I doubt it. I'm not saying that there weren't valid and possible ideas in that post, every suggestion is welcomed as something for the Board to consider. The Board is a group of ordinary folks volunteering their personal time and money to keep the ACC moving forward. Believe it or not, we don't have all the answers.

All members of the club are welcome to attend the BOD meeting coming up in February. There is detailed information posted on the website regarding the meeting logistics. And, BOD minutes are posted in the Members Only section if you can't attend. If you can't attend, feel free to email me regarding any ideas or suggestions that you want brought up and I will have them added to the agenda. My club email is membership@arkansascanoeclub.com.

Have a wonderful 2012!

Maggie Powell, ACC Membership Chair

[Half Ton]

[quote ] but I wonder if it should be a concern that I don't see MORE of a pissing contest on the msg board these days with some younger folks doing more of the pissing...?[/quote]

I agree and would like to add that if this discussion was allowed to take place on the forum in a freestyle fashion several years ago that it might not have come to this split in opinion.

Free the message board!!!

A little or more than a little freedom of expression used to have this place moving more instead of slowing down. But hey, no one gets banned or burnt.

Thanks for your openness to feedback Maggie!

Keep on that wave y'all but don't take it too serious. It seems like progress was being made, and it is common for folks working toward a goal to get frustrated along the way even tho they are making progress.

[Half Ton]

Double post