Raft speed? White or Little Red? plan a trip

[Clif]

Hoping to catch some opinions.. maybe western river knowledge helps? All I know is meandering down the Buffy.

The White has pretty good current these days with generation and lots of release. Think the cruise speed would be quicker than an average Buffy run? Reason asking... looking for a place to run Calico Rock, Allison area. 13 to 15 miles between bridges. Would that seem as long of a run as it would on the Buffalo? Seems it may be ok if you cruise faster... 4+ to 5 mph? Guessing here.

How long of a float on the White would one try for with kids on a raft? I may can scout out a private launch between bridges and chop that in half or so. Hoping for a weekday next week.....maybe Sat 7-2?

[Roger]

Clif, this maybe your best bet if you're bringing the little ones.

http://southwestpaddler.com/docs/whitear20.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shuttle maybe a bit long and not sure if they are available. Or this section is equal in length roughly:

http://southwestpaddler.com/docs/whitear4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Got a lot shorter sections on the Little Red and they have been generating quite a bit. Shuttle wouldn't be problem since I am out of school and would be glad to run it for you.

[Deuce]

Of those my first choice would be Buff City to Norfork. It's a very pretty float and a shuttle can be worked out with any of the outfitters available at either end. As you know, the White is movin' and groovin' right now, so it might be prudent to discuss your plan with one of said outfitters since you'll have precious cargo aboard. Of course the flow won't be as much of an issue for a raft. I've been fishing the section between Calico Rock and Alison all my life and love it very much. It wouldn't be a bad choice, but you'll encounter quite a few boats since there's a ramp at Alison that gets quite a bit of use. Not that boats are bad.... The Little Red is always nice, but it stays covered up due to its proximity to Little Rock, Memphis, etc.

[hfunkhouser]

I don't know much about raft speeds, but I've been living on the lil red (family vacation) between barnetts and lobo for a week. I paddled it yesterday and it took us about 3.5 hours to do 4.5 miles in a big ol squareback old town...that thing is a barge. Been sitting on the dock fishing every day. I've seen maybe 10 boats the whole time, and caught quite a few rainbow trout. The wind has been a nuisance, actually blew us back upstream sometimes.
Edit: we floated with no generation. The lake is high so they have both gens running from approx 12-10pm. From what I saw the fishing was pretty poor during generation, but it creates a lot of fast moving water. Prob have to push a big raft over some shoals during low water, we had to give it a nudge once in our canoe.

[Deuce]

Given your location and paucity of boat traffic I'd say there's an impassable shoal or two between you and the nearest ramp. Little Red is covered up every Saturday. Of course with a raft they would be able to avoid the crowds. I floated from Cow Shoals to Barnett once and had a large time. Boat traffic was limited to canoes, kayaks and Gheenoes.

[hfunkhouser]

You have a point there regarding the impassable shoals. When we paddled we ran cow shoals to barnetts, and saw 1 boat. But it was a Monday and it was really windy.

[robkanraft]

Wanting to do a fishing trip on the White soon, can someone familiar give me some ideas for floating launching on the White at Cotter to ____ ? We want to trailer the raft, so I need a day's fishing with ramps in between.

Or a section with two ramps in between farther down. Are there shoals on the White we might not get through on lower generation levels?

[Clif]

rog, Allison down was 1 section I measured. Topo sed 13+ miles??? hmmm. L Red may be the choice.. what's it like past swing bridge where they aint no bridge?

Rob, pm me an email. I will send you something about those stretches. Lots of private docks and camp spots up there.

[Shark Attack]

Clif, let me know when you head to the Little Red, we love to trout fish!

[Wildwood]

Dunno anything about rafts. Last year there was a 10 mile race, from Allison to Sylamore creek. Flow was pretty fast, only took some an hour or so. But then again, one was that Olympics guy . . .

[Cowper]

The White has pretty good current these days with generation and lots of release. Think the cruise speed would be quicker than an average Buffy run? Reason asking... looking for a place to run Calico Rock, Allison area. 13 to 15 miles between bridges. Would that seem as long of a run as it would on the Buffalo? Seems it may be ok if you cruise faster... 4+ to 5 mph? Guessing here.

Google earth says white at Calico Rock is ~450 feet wide.
Gages say 16000 cfs
WAG on average depth 15 feet
16000 cfs / 450 feet / 15 feet X 60 seconds/min X 60 minutes/hr / 5280 feet/mile

=1.62 miles/hour

But current moves slower near shore and near bottom, faster on top near the middle. So carry your naught/naught double naughts, make another WAG, and let's say it moves ~twice as fast on top near middle, so you should be able to count on at least 3 miles per hour with very little paddling or rowing, plus or minus how much you lose or gain due to wind speed.

Of course, I adjusted all WAG numbers to insure my final number would match what I expected. Any good engineer or accountant should be able to do that for you, right? (What do you WANT it to be? We can recalculate it to meet customer expectations...)

[Jim Krueger]

Clif,

My vote would be for one of the sections on the White River that you or others mentioned. Considering you are taking the kids in your raft for that length, (the speed of the river could be a good thing) and your skills will be more than enough, plus hot sunny days recently, etc., that would be my choice. I'm sure the river is moving along pretty good however I would plan for about three hours to a lunch stop, then another fairly equal time to the take-out afterward, with two or three breaks briefly to swim. (This is starting to sound like one of our Caddo trips earier in the year :)) Have a good trip, and do give a report. B.T.W. I've never floated on any part of the White R. but would like to do so some time... I'll bet, with fairly constant paddling, you can make it without being out there too long for all of you. We'll adjust the time in the future if you're really late to the take-out :)

Best Regards
Jim

[Clif]

Well Cowp, i was impressed for a bit ... but then realized there is no constant variable for a 7 year old entertainment factor and the coefficient related to how many times one hears "how much longer" seems to be lost in that void of "adjusted all WAG numbers to insure my final number would match what I expected."

I just wanna do as Jim says and spend as much or more time playing and just keeping it in the middle, Huck Finn Style. Throwing kids off the boat, investigating rope swings, etc.... My boys are seasoned river rats, but the plan is to bring newbies if this works out. Just gotta find the right section, methinks.

[Roger]

Clif, access points starting below the dam are JFK park, Cow Shoals, Barnett (Winkley Shoals or Swinging Bridge), Libby, Lobo, Dripping Springs, and Ramsey.

Forget about Cow Shoals and Libby as the access is made difficult by having to haul the boats up a paved/improved trail to the parking lot. Never used Lobo.

JFK to Barnett might be the ticket with generation and an early start. Put a fishing rod in the young one's hands to help pass the time. Problem is there might not be a spot for lunch with the full banks.

Best bet from my experience would be to do Dripping Springs (Pangburn) down to Ramsey. You have boat ramps at both places. This is my "backyard." Time might be about 2-3 hours total if you stretch it out, catch some big eddies and do some fishing. Again, lunch spots might be iffy with generation. Catching an eddy, tying up, and dining on the river might be possible.

No rope swings, but plenty of places to chunk a kid in a life jacket with a rope handy! Though they might fly out of that water at 56 degrees.

Hope this helps.

[hfunkhouser]

Yeah at 56F my 10 year old lasted about 5 seconds and wouldn't put his toe in it for the remaining week. He's pretty salty, too. The water makes the breeze nice and cool, but if they do start overheating it feels great-very briefly.