Arkansas Canoe Club Forums

Will be looking for a 10am push off. The wife,one of her girls(5yr) and I will be in a Old Town Disco 174 by the name of Emprovise Adapt & Overcome. Her oldest will be in a rented(BRFS) double kayak 7&8 yr old.

We are looking foward to this we havent canoed anything other than flat water due too her being prego. We had our first and last baby(girl) together last week on the 17th and we are through having kids!!!! We have 6 together!!! 5 girls 1 boy!!!! Her 3 girls will be on this trip, my mom is keeping baby for few hours and I dont have my 2 this holiday.

Give us a howdy if you see us,
Randy

Had a wonderfull float. River was at 5.9', moved right along, gps said we averaged 4.2mph. Took us about 4 hours stopping along they way to play and build a fire and cook some hotdogs. I got some much needed experience practicing different paddling skills(strokes and turns) paddleing solo and tandem. It was windy windy windy blowing upstream about 3/4 of the trip. Kids were unable to paddle the kayak so wife paddle it and 2 of the rode with me 3/4 of the way. The last 2 miles we tied the yak to the back of the canoe and pulled 2 of the kids behind us.

There was a canoe that got in 2 close to the bank in the chute right above spring creek and got caught in some strainers fliped and injured one of the girls. I was told broke collar bone or dislocated shoulder. They had one rope and no success recovering the canoe when I came along. I had a 75' rope and not much know how on swift water recovery but some common sense and I do know that the canoe that was sunk was pointed at a 45* angle down stream. At that angle I couldnt understand why they werent pulling it downstream. The strainers it was hung in was small willows they were many but not large. Anyway I was only there about 10 mins I talked them into pulling it downstream with my rope. They tied my rope on the down river end of the canoe and 2 guys pushed on the up river end. It poped right out! Canoe was not damaged much to my suprise.

I later talked to a gentleman who had been helping with the recovery who had lended some carabiners for the recovery. He was saying that he was trying to get them to tie a rope on the twart go under the canoe, then over the canoe & up stream and try to flip the canoe. To me looks like that would cause the canoe to roll down, not helping any. Now taking the rope under the canoe the around the back and tying to the twart might have helped causing it to roll up and over the strainers. I have put much thought into it and i think this may have been what he was trying to tell me as we floating later. Like said I have not been trained it swift water recovery. Mabey someone on here could lend some insight on that technique and mabey even direct me to were I could study, read, learn swift water recovery online.

I just know sometimes common sense goes a long way, sunk canoe at 45* down stream,swift water, small strainer trees, enough grown men to pull down a building(only needed 4) to me that all equaled pull this canoe down steam.

No responses on our canoe recovery?

Hmmmmmm, my story must not be interesting im being ignored lol!!

http://forums.arkansascanoeclub.com/vie ... =1&t=18931" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

here you go and plenty of time to sign on

this type of recovery is covered in the clinic

a fine bunch of instructors and you will learn a bunch of good stuff and have a fun time as well

dave

Nah, don't take it that way!

Speaking for myself, I think I either thought the thread was a trip invite for a day I had other plans, or it just got "bumped down" while I was out playing Memorial Day weekend, then again for Rec School the following weekend. As much as I browse the board (too much), this is the first time I had opened and read this thread. Will come back and edit in a few minutes with some thoughts...

EDIT:

Sounds like you are a man after my own heart - The way I'm reading it, the first thing you did, after recognizing it as a "boat recovery" and not a "rescue", was spend a few minutes just studying the situation and figuring a different way to pull since what had been tried so far wasn't working. That's always a great "step 1".

On the discussion with the other fellow; I think he had it right, and was just working on a different recovery plan. Without seeing the pin myself, I wouldn't pretend to say if it was a good plan for that specific situation, but, what I think he was trying to accomplish was a classic maneuver know as the "Steve Thomas Rope Trick". You'll find a full discussion here:

http://www.brrr.ws/docs/Boat_Rescue_Haul_Systems.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But for starters, skip down to the illustrations. Look especially at the last cartoon panel, is that what he was telling you he wanted to do? If so, then he was probably on track for a good recovery, although obviously your plan was proven to be a good method also.

Looking again at the illustration, if you run the rope UNDER the boat, around the back, and try to pull, the water current tends to push down with too much force and prevents you from rolling the boat up and over to get the desired "dump" of water. But if you do it what seems like "backwards" - over the boat, around the bottom, and tie to the thwart as shown in the illustration, once you start pulling the boat will spill some water, and tend to pop up spilling even more, eventually doing almost a complete barrel roll and landing on the surface less than half full of water, sometimes almost empty. It is a little bit counter-intuitive, but it boils down to the difference between standing in a pool and lifting the boat to dump it, versus trying to do the same thing in moving current.

I second the motion on attending the swiftwater course in July if at all possible, for all sorts of reasons:
1) You may have "the knack" for this stuff - and it's FUN.
2) You have lots of kids - their safety will be greatly improved by the things you will learn
3) The course is taught for "all boaters", and even non-boaters, not just hard-core WW types. The vast majority of techniques practiced don't even involve the use of your boat - more your brain, your rope, and a few other simiple things like caribiners.

P.S. - That's wild, looks like Steve and I were typing at the same time, and must have used the same google search since we both hit on exactly the same link...

The man who loaned the carabiners may have been talking about the Steve Thomas Rope Trick. You do let the current push the rope under the canoe, but there is more to it then just tying to a thwart. Click on this link to see a discussion of how it works: http://www.brrr.ws/docs/Boat_Rescue_Haul_Systems.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks guys for the response's. I should of started a new thread so it wouldn't have looked like I was just talking about the day trip(my bad!).

I would love to attend the swift water rescue course but I cant this year. I will definitely try on the next one!

Yes the Steve Thomas Rope Trick is what he was telling me as we floated down later on .I now see why it works backwards from what I was thinking as he explained it. I really like the Ills. of the mechanical advantages. Thank's For the links!

If you can't attend this year, go pick up a copy of this book and keep it on your coffee table:
http://www.amazon.com/Whitewater-Rescue ... pd_sim_b_2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Buy yourself one or two CMI pulleys, either model RP110 or RP113
http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/pulleys/micro.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I believe the "hands on" classes are the way to go, but I also believe everyone should get the book and start learning at home. You'll get more out of the class later if you do, plus you might need to use some of it before you ever take the class.

Big second recommendation on the rescue book. This is the best I have found and I think I have most all the various books on the topic.

Sundmacher did the first ACA Swift Water Rescue Instuctor clinic at Rockport and did a heck of a good job. Not sure if he is still teaching or not but he had a long history of Gauley type rescue work as a guide and EMT work as well.

Highly recommend this book. Next best thing to going to a clinic