Arkansas Canoe Club Forums

I have been pondering this for some time now. In my opinion a new boater would benefit with a clinic like this. To hit on the SWR, gear, rope throwing and timing, swimming, self rescue, boat based rescues, strainers and wading. These are just some of the topics I would teach for SWR.

For paddling skills, , we would work on strokes, river running and reading, river hydrology.

Ofcourse this can be tailored to the skill levels of the participants. Im just trying to come up with a way to get information out there in a shorter time frame. So what do you guys think???

I agree that this could be a great class. From an instructors perspective, I think it would be a lot of fun to teach "WW 201"... Sortof a follow-on from what is taught at WW School. The rescue and safety side could fit fit into the ACA Level III course, but I don't think we should limit ourselves only to that.
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On the paddling side of things, I have thought that a POV camera and some video of a rapid from a scouting perspective could be used to lead a good discussion in risk analysis and decision making. I originally thought of this as a Saturday-night session for an intro to canoe class during WW school, but people with a little more experience might get a lot more out of it.

Would it make sense to try to teach something like this during WW school? Since we generally paddle in mixed groups. I think it would be good to put kayakers and canoeists together. A lot of kayakers might not know it's pretty easy to rescue a canoe if it's flipped upright, and a lot of canoeists might not realize how heavy a kayak full of water can be. I would try to have an instructor in each type of craft so we can demonstrate things from both perspectives.

What about participants? Anyone out there think this would be the difference between being a student at WW school or not?

Thanks,
Shep

At the WW Canoe School my sessions are primary on boat control and how to help the kayak go where it needs to go. It does not stop with just boat control tho.

Along with this is a healthy dose of reading river features and how to use them to the paddlers advantage. We start out with a full range of written material and prep work sent to our students prior to Canoe School. This includes boat outfitting tips, stretching, recommended clothing etc.

While WW Canoe School is not advertised as a rescue clinic, my students get a pretty good introduction. IE first saturday drill is flip and exit kayak, get kayak to shore and dump water. Then discussion of eskimo rescue, boat to swimmer rescue and boat recovery. We discuss throw bag procedures. Then move into edge control drills then run the river stopping at features to work on specific skills and reading the river as we go. During the lunch break we break out throw bags and do a lot of rope throws. With one or more of the instructors in the water as targets. We take that time to demo swim techniques as well. We work very hard on sat with a full day on the river and a full dump of techniques.

Sunday we do a quick review and get on the river and work really hard on putting what we learned sat in use. IE We look for quality boat control, hitting eddies at specific spots, surfing skills and lots of ferry moves.

Bottom line is we cover a ton of boat control and paddle technique theory and drills, added in is river reading and a lot of rescue technique as well.

Our schedule starts friday night and continues on with a ton of information sharing that is continuous and fast paced. Ask any of the students Vernon and I taught last year for examples. Vernon and myself will be joined with Al next canoe school and will follow the same format (hopefully with much more water flow for added excitement and teaching opportunities) except with Al joining us we can do more one on one coaching. I am a big fan of the NOC 5 day clinics and incorporate many of those techniques into the ACC Canoe school clinics I teach.

I don't think my WW School outline is that much different from most other ACC Canoe School instructors or the topics printed out in the Canoe School outline.

Not saying that an additional clinic is not a good idea, just saying that the existing ACC Canoe School drills cover a lot more than just boat control.

Probably my perspective is very narrow since I have only instructed at one WW school, and that was a group of brand-new canoeists. I would like to hear from other canoe participants and instructors on this, but I suspect that the kayak group "lesson plans" are more diverse than the canoe groups, since there are more kayak groups. I still maintain that when it comes to basic rescue skills, there is significant value in working with different kinds of boats.

Thanks,
Shep

Shep,

I agree with you on various types of boats.

I know one year Vernon had a expert canoe instructor on his kayak team. He reported that worked out really good.

I am a firm believer that it does not matter what boat you use long as you get on the water.

While technique for each craft is somewhat different, the basics of river reading and rescue share a lot of similarity

I kayak, canoe and raft and enjoy all of them. I especially enjoy having rafts and canoes along when I am in my kayak and need help gear hauling.

All we need is more rain and a good Mulberry weekend for canoe school.

okieboater wrote:Shep,
All we need is more rain and a good Mulberry weekend for canoe school.

AMEN!

No idea on liability, I would think frequency is a problem? SWR classes open and fill in a hurry in the summer. Many think of finding classes when it gets warm... after may school. Perhaps another intro class like orig post mentioned later in the summer?

The options are interesting.. like at SWR class where we had yaks, canoes and rafts... much more true to actual trips where a mix is often the case. All the classes I have participated in had lots of SWR, all in a kayak. The most important piece of gear is the brain. Never have too much exercising it in these scenarios. I threw a rope several times a couple of years ago may not help your buddy next week.

In noway would I ever want this to take the place of WW School. This is just a idea i had, its all really up in air. It just seems to me that this type of clinic could reach the folks that just cant get the time of to take a two day SW class and a two day WW class. This is a class that a boater could take to get a "taste" of things to come. Ofcourse there would be topics not taught because of time, example; car topping. Not nocking it, its very important to get to the river with your boat. But if you got to the clinic with your boat you probably know how to tie it off. Just an example. I hear all the time "man i need to take a SW class", "man i need to work on my rope throwing", man i wish i knew how to brace etc..... What im trying to do is give new boaters some tools so thay can boat safely but also show them how important it is to take a multi day clinic.

Great Idea!!! I'd love to be a part of it...

I am not trained as a lawyer, so take my comments for what they are worth - just a personal opinion.

There is a major difference in liability between a bunch of buds getting together for a float trip with equally shared expenses and any kind of advertised clinic especially if money changes hands. Should an accident occur, the law of unintended consequences usually takes over.

The amount of paper work done by ACC to get the necessary permits, facilities and insurance coverage for ACC sponsored clinics is way more extensive than most realize.

ACA certified instructors and ACA event insurance can reduce the financial exposure some what but it is still there. The legal exposure is always there and we all do not think our fellow boaters would sue if an accident should occur. Lawsuits have happened over water based accidents and liability. We live in a time where personal responsibility is often overlooked when accidents occur.

Again, not saying more clinics are not needed, I think the number and quality of ACC sponsored clinics are key to the success of the ACC and the entire boating community. Maybe we need more. This is a great topic for the ACC BOD meetings and those wanting more clinics would do a good thing by attending the BOD and bringing up the subject.

I know we used to do a lot of technique mini clinics at Rendezvous. Rendezvous still does a lot. A problem is getting volunteers to put them on. This is especially true for the more advanced technique clinics. Volunteering to put on a Rendezvous mini clinic might well be a good thing to test out the type of clinic talked about in this thread.

There was, in fact, a "Rescue Rodeo" put on at Couchdale during last years Rendezvous. I did not participate, as I had committed to other events that happened at the same time, but I was there for part of it, and there was a decent turn-out. The on-river stuff that happened later was cancelled, I think, because everyone went to watch the Hometown Throwdown at the upper ledge.

Shep

Maybe I should have put my credentials up here. I have been the Clinic Chairman for the Bayou Chapter Ozark Society for a while now, so im very familiar with the amount of liability and the amount of paper work needed to have clinic's. Why, im the one that does it. Im a ACA WW Canoe Solo/Tandem Instructor, WW Kayak and SWR Instructor. I also keep my CPR/First Aid up to date and just finished a Wilderness First Aid Clinic with Tom, which I might add was AWESOME. The things I can do with ducktape now are amazing. Im not trying to add more pressure to the ACC and the great clinics they(we) already have, im just trying to fill a void I think we have.(my opinion) Paddlers are also saying I need to work on this or that. Why cant we cross SW and WW together to give a new paddler more tools to paddle safely? I understand there is alot of what if's and things that need to be hammered out. But I truely think by the PM's im getting and what response the message board has seen this could really work. I truly appreciate the feedback, remember it's just an idea. Im just trying ways to get more folks on the rivers safely. Heck this might even boost memeberships. Ive been to several meeetings with ACC and BCOS and membership is always a great concern.

Adam,

My guess is most folks on the message board support in principle what you want to do. I am glad you have such a extensive background in boating clinics and am glad you are now helping the ACC as well as the Ozark Society. Both are fine organizations.

I think it is a good idea. Myself and others have used the same concepts to help the DustBowl Chapter grow here in Tulsa OK as well as the ACC region wide.

I hope you take a leadership position to implement these type clinics.

I think making a presentation to the ACC BOD is a very good way to get the support needed to make additional clinics a reality.

Go for it. You have my support and help unless I am boating out west or east on the clinic dates you pick. <big smiles as I am retired>

Dave

PS: I share your appreciation of Mr. Tom. Tom is an all around great man to have around on a trip especially if an emergency happens. His teaching skills are top notch and only surpassed by his river side expertise in the kitchen!!

Seems like you have more than 1 day of info going... but like Mr Jmac said... if I can help.

I agree many new paddlers need more exposire to this and often show up just in time for..try ww school next year.

okieboater wrote:Ask any of the students Vernon and I taught last year for examples.

I was one of 'em, and can attest that I learned more in two days of flatwater with dave and vernon than I did in9 months of flailing about in moving water,