Arkansas Canoe Club Forums

Hi, folks! Noob from ArkLaTex area here. I'm sure this is the kind of ignorant request that makes some of you cringe but I'd really appreciate your input.

My best friend and I (31 & 32 and in ok shape) have done a number of floats together, usually in kayaks, but always cheapo rentals. Typical floats are Caddo (around 7') or Lower Mtn Fork. The best float trip, though, was Little Mo when it was somewhere between 4'-5' last year (gauge was out but some paddlers gave their estimate). We were ill-equipped, uneducated morons, trying to float it in Old Town Otters we rented from Gander Mountain. No helmets, no spray skirts, no rescue training, no sense. It was dangerous. But somehow we survived and had a blast in the process. And we learned that we needed to get educated and gear up properly before we took to swift water (for us) again.

Anyways, my buddy's birthday is coming up soon and his GF wants to buy him a kayak. She's asked me for ideas. Unfortunately, I'm still pretty ignorant on the subject but I know with snowboards (and boots/bindings), for example, it's best to try before you buy. I'm guessing that would be the top response here, too, but I don't know.

So my question is, what are her options if she wants to buy him a boat (I'm thinking playboat or creek boat) without him ever sitting in it?

If anyone wants to take a stab at a suggestion of where to start, I'll give more info:

He's a tallish guy, probably 6'-2" or 3", thinner build, about 170, but athletic. He's a noob like me but catches on to outdoor sports quickly and would probably progress fast following a few meetups.

I suspect his floats will consist of a mix of flat water and Class I-III rapids, or whatever class of rapids you'd find on Little Mo at 4.5'-5' or so but his preference will be towards the more aggressive floats. I'm sure he'll want to go beyond class II or III, too, so he needs a whitewater boat that's a little forgiving at the beginning but also allows for progress. (Again, I'm thinking there are probably parallels with snowboard gear so forgive me if this is ridiculous.)

Frequency of trips... best guess, uh, probably once or twice a month during the rainy season. Day trips and half-day, maybe an over-nighter once or twice a year.

Price range is $500 or less. Does that limit him to a decent used boat?

I apologize in advance if I haven't provided enough information. I'm just looking for a good place to start.

Thanks!

My opinion, 500 bucks price point is gonna mean buying used for a WW play or creek kayak.

6'3" and 170? That is one skinny mofo (or maybe I'm just fatter than I think I am.) If so, he's gonna have a hard time finding a boat that fits him well and falls inside his recommended weight range.

I'd give this a look though.

http://forums.arkansascanoeclub.com/vie ... =2&t=17096

$500 would get him a decent used boat. Problem with this scenario is she may buy him one and him not fit in it.

Some great boats are Diesels, Funs, Mambas.... well there are lots of great boats.

Maybe she should give him the cash and let him find one. After all, it's the thought that counts.

Oooh! Here's an idea!

How about the gift be to pay for admission to our club's School of Whitewater Paddling held first weekend in May. Put a certificate for that she could make in a box, along with a really cool kayak helmet! Nothing says you care like giving someone a really solid helmet to protect their noggin! And then that lets your friend concentrate on getting the right used boat that will fit him.

There really is so much he'll need beyond just the kayak to get started, so a gift package of something like a helmet, a good pfd, a drytop and a certificate for lessons would probably add up to equal the value of a good used boat, but leave that more personalized decision to your friend to pick the right boat.

That's a very good suggestion Heather! At either the Rec. School or the WW School, the opportunities for a student to borrow a good boat and paddle for the course is always good. I think having the course paid for, plus a start on some of the quality equipment is a great way to proceed! I certainly agree this would give anyone the best start, and the better idea of what boats they might like the best also.


Jim Moose

another vote for Heather's ideas.

you can get him the right size helmet, pfd, dry top, farmer john etc but getting the right sized used kayak is going to be next to impossible between now and Christmas.

Either Heather's idea or give him the money and let him find the boat himself.

I can tell you from personal experience and observations, the first kayak a person buys is not going to be a winner, for that matter neither is the next ten or more. I am still looking, after all these years the Jackson Super Hero came close for me and then EJ came out with the Villain ..............

I am 6'4 and 190-200, and I actually did something similar to you guys for my first whitewater trip: went down the cadron in march without knowing anything about wet exits or anything. I bought a Series 1 Jackson 4 Fun, and couldn't have been more pleased. I got outfitted for somewhere around 600 bucks, without a drytop, so it's the right range. It may be bias, but as far as I can tell from teaching some rolls and word of mouth, the Jackson Fun series is second to none for an introductory boat. It's forgiving, stable, incredibly easy to roll, and can serve a lot of purposes. You can play in it and feel comfortable on the kind of water you're talking about, and once he decides he wants to invest more money in it, he can move on to a creeker and playboat. But my $.02 says for a first boat, the Jackson 4 fun is the boat for him, as it can accommodate his height, but shouldn't swallow him like a creeker. I agree with the other input on here, that you should use the white water school to do research as well as get invaluable contact and experience, but in regards to a straight answer to the question: Jackson 4 Fun.

$500? He has an awesome girlfriend.

The school-how much is it? I need it.

JeffT wrote:The school-how much is it? I need it.

They will finalize this year's costs at the Feb Board Meeting, but last year it was $90 and will probably stay about that. You do need to also be an ACC Member ($25 per year). If you happen to be an AMERICAN Canoe Association member, there's an additional discount.

They open registration I think about March, and it's first come, first served until all classes are full!

It's a fun weekend to learn a lot, meet a lot of fun people, and have a great time on the river!

I'm 6'3" and 185 - Wavesport EZG 50 is a very fun boat for that weight range and not too cramped for feet. If he likes to paddle agressively, it'll reward him. It's a playboat that is a fairly stable river runner. For more stability and less play-ability, the EZG 60 is a great, comfortable choice. But neither of those are a creek boat at all - if your buddy's going to want to head for rockier, steeper stuff, he'll need something besides an EZG. Something with more volume and less edginess. I creek out of a Huck, but wouldn't recommend it as an all around boat.

- Fish

There was a Jackson Hero used on our for sale page that would also be a very good boat, IMO. A hair above the price range you quoted, but often there is an "asking" price and a "I'll take cash" price with a little bit of wriggle room in-between the two numbers, that might help. Jackson is coming out with a new version in a few months, that is probably why he is probably selling a relatively newer boat. DISCLOSURE: The seller and I have known each other for years, but have not been in contact concerning this boat.

In getting a boat, you've got less than 1/2 of the gear you need to hit the water for an early spring float. You'll need paddle, helmet, PFD, and SOME WARM PADDLING CLOTHES - Drysuit, or wetsuit farmer john + Drytop, etc. If you search you'll find several threads on that topic alone. Don' skimp on the paddle. The drysuit is the deluxe option (get one with booties, relief zipper, and breathable material), and that alone would cost as much as the boat, or even more than a used boat depending on brand. I mention this because it gives a wealth of other options that would keep the buyer within her budget (except for a high end drysuit, which would exceed $500). Downside is that it is just as hard to pick the best first paddle as it is to pick the boat.

General tip, almost all of the WW boats, while "stable" compared to racing boats, are "unstable" compared to the recreational kayaks. Your buddy will want to learn to roll to fully enjoy the new toy. Have him drop by some of the roll sessions, in either LR, Russellville, or Fayetteville. It's best to do that BEFORE going to Canoe School, because the school focuses on other river skills. Cooler spring weather is NOT the optimum time time learn to roll; a heated pool is the best ticket for that.

I used to boat a large Burn and it is a excellent creeker and all around river runner.

one for sale now on this msg board and the price is below 500 bux with skirt.

This is gonna be a good deal for some one.