HELP!!!

[EdP]

Hey Folks,

My name is Ed, I'm a newbie and soon to be addicted to kayaking. Where can I get some help before this escalates into a full blown life of paddling and total disregard to an income. :)

Jokes aside, I'd like to ask you experienced dudes and dudettes for some boat advice. I'm a wildlife photographer so I want some stability so I can carry pro-line photography gear without my insurance agent having a coronary. The photography work will be primarily in the Arkansas river valley on flat, still water. But, I also own a weekend home in the upper Buffalo River area and would like to paddle the Buffalo too, for pleasure, not carrying the pro gear.

My meager research (have been lurking on this forum and have surfed the www reading anything I can find on 'yaks) has brought me to the fact that not any one boat is perfect for both of my applications. However, the crossover boats seem to fit the bill best. I've not paddled any boats yet, but I have sit in a Liquid Logic Remix XP10 (awesome boat, not much back support) and a Dagger Axis 10.5, which was the most comfortable of the two. There's tons of reviews on the XP10, but not much to be found on the Axis 10.5. The sales reps I've visited with tell me the Dagger will be the most stable and best tracking, as the LL is more of a WW boat with some recreational features.

So, I guess my questions are: Does anyone have a boat suggestion that might fit my needs? Does anyone have experience in the Dagger Axis 10.5? Anyone have experience in both the LL and Dagger?

Thanks in advance, I know this is probably more open to discussion than a short answer, but any input will be greatly appreciated.

Peace,
Ed

[Phil W.]

Sorry I can't answer you as I'm a canoe person, but I'll tell you a canoe it a great platform for photos...

[EdP]

So, the canoes are pretty stable? I'm inexperienced here too, so what type of canoe would you suggest?

I've also looked at the "fishing" kayaks that are very similar to a canoe and have seen videos of guys standing and casting from them. Amazing that is possible.

[AR-Nimrod]

Might not be what your looking for but the Manta Ray SOT's from Native Watercraft are super stable and can carry a LOT of gear. Very good back support. OOO in Hot Springs carries them. There is a pic on this board somewhere of my daughter standing up in hers.

[EdP]

I checked out the Manta Ray. Cool fishing setup and I can see the stability is awesome. I wonder how well a boat like that would handle class II water? Does your daughter have any experience paddling creeks or streams with hers?

Thank you for your input!

[Randy Dodson]

make the 3 hour trip to Ouachita Outdoor Outfitters in Hot Springs. best store for paddlers in the state.

[EdP]

I think that's a great suggestion! I've read nothing but good things about those guys. I wonder...do they have demo boats? Do they have the facility to test ride boats?

Thanks for your input!

[Karla]

They do let you demo and take you to the lake.

Karla

[EdP]

Great! They're on my list to visit the last weekend of this month.

Thanks for the info!

[GutIt]

Hey Ed!

Welcome to the Forum!

I’ll see if I can toss out a couple of considerations for your consideration.

You have asked for advice for a boat to fit your needs. I’m not exactly sure what those may be still so I’ll try to be a little generic.

Will you be shooting out of your boat? If yes, then here are some advantages a canoe will give you. Easier access to your gear and easier to change glass if you want to. If you are sitting in a decked kayak, the only choice for easy access to shoot from the boat is to have your gear between your legs. And considering you may have your gear in, say, a Peli box, it is going to be very cumbersome, uncomfortable, and difficult to access it out of a kayak. Even if you use dry bags, it won’t be as easily accessible as in a canoe. You can put your paddle down inside a canoe and shoot. With a kayak you typically lay the paddle across the cockpit while you are in it and stop paddling to free your hands, which compounds the access issue. Of course, you could go with a paddle leash and let your paddle go where it may (i.e. in the drink). Then you are going to have water drip issues dripping on all that fine shootin’ gear. If you are shooting wildlife and are using your 1,000,000mm you can stand a tripod in a canoe, if even only a partial extension! Or even easier to use a mono. You can move and turn around in a canoe. Move to the bow, or stern, or wherever. Face forward or backward. You may find that that awesome Bald Eagle that just landed in a tree waiting for you to shoot his photo will be inaccessible from the bank and you may need to switch glass before you get up to him for that in-the-face in-flight shot. A lot easier to do in an open boat.

I would definitely stay away from Sit-on-Top kayaks carrying expensive camera gear if your insurance agent gets nervous. You will have to be doubly careful that something doesn’t fall/roll off one of those to the drink. Especially if you plan on having your shootin’ iron out while you are in the boat. And that 1,000,000mm will sink like a rock! Plus they are a wetter ride under any circumstances. Certainly if it is a self bailer with holes in the hull.

If you are wanting to shoot mostly ashore, then maybe a kayak would be a better choice. You can stow your gear and off-load it when you reach your destination. They are better in the wind, having less above-water profile, lower center of gravity, and would be a faster boat for solo purposes.

I solo an open boat, Ed (canoe). It is a short (15.5’) tandem that I have set up for solo and can revert to tandem when I need to. I just find that it has many advantages for my style of boating. Not only will it be better to shoot out of, but will hold that nice cooler full of cold ones that your kayaking friends will want to horn in on when you do a ‘nighter on the Buffalo! Or just for the day, even. And hold some camping gear as well as your camera gear.

You will find that whatever your choice, and you get a good quality boat, once you have paddled the boat a while, it will become second nature to you. You won’t even be concerned with stability issues anymore. It’s like photography. You don’t start out being Ansel Adams! So I’d suggest taking another look at what you really want to do with your boat, get a good one no matter canoe or kayak, learn to paddle it, paddle it often, and don’t look back. Once you become irreversibly addicted and you want another boat down the line? Well, most of us do and have multiple in our fleet. If you are going for a yak, might want to make sure you can get your dry boxes (if that is indeed what you use), bags, pods, etc. in and out of it easily. Some have water-tight bulkheads and hatches that are a bit on the smallish side. Especially if you are using a little bigger size box.

Color? You might want to consider the State Color of camouflage for sneaking up on the critters along the bank or in the swamps. Or maybe a dark green. I would suggest an 18% gray color for exposure purposes, maybe. But I solve this issue by wearing my 18% gray underwear so I am always good for exposing myself, er, um, I mean my shots!

As always, the best advice is try before you buy!

[EdP]

Hey Terry,

Thank you for the detailed response! I can tell that you're not only an experienced paddler, but also have photography experience. Your input has proved to be invaluable. Thanks dude!

I do want to shoot from the boat, primarily on flat water, and need to be stealthy shooting waterfowl, raptors, wading birds, reptiles, female sunbathers, etc.. I can see your point with a closed or smallish cockpit and trying to yield my 1,000,000mm (that's too funny, but not far off my 600mm f/4) lens and one series body. It definitely would pose a problem that an open boat would solve.

I'm starting to realize that owning two boats is the true solution - a canoe as you suggested or an open fishing yak like the Native Watercraft Ultimate 12 for chasing critters and filling flash cards, then another boat for recreational paddling.

Thanks again, Terry, you've offered up some sound advice that has my noggin churning. I promise, come this fall, my paddle with be in the water.

18% gray photography canoe…you may be on to something here…

Peace,
Ed

[Cowper]

But I solve this issue by wearing my 18% gray underwear so I am always good for exposing myself, er, um, I mean my shots!

If these shorts used to be white, it's time to wash 'em!

Given that response, it is really hard to find anything to add. So I'll just note, for photography, you'll probably want a canoe that bills itself as good for "fishing" or "birdwatching". That is generally the "code words" for telling you that the boat is slower paddling, but much more stable and therefore less likely to flip you just because of a minor weight shift.

I checked out the Manta Ray. Cool fishing setup and I can see the stability is awesome. I wonder how well a boat like that would handle class II water?

As well as the driver. Seriously.

[AR-Nimrod]

I checked out the Manta Ray. Cool fishing setup and I can see the stability is awesome. I wonder how well a boat like that would handle class II water? Does your daughter have any experience paddling creeks or streams with hers?

Thank you for your input!

Yep, we did the Spring at Rec School. We've been on the Upper Ouachita and Caddo with them. Daughter has 11 footer the wife has a 12 footer. I have a Heritage Redfish 12. They SOT's are a wetter ride so, I keep my camera in an Otter Box and take it out when I want to shoot. No matter what boat you buy you're gonna need some type of dry bag or box to store gear in.

[Jaytee]

I'd ditto those who note that a canoe will be a superior platform for transporting your equipment and from which to shoot. Rec kayaks have gear storage but whether you've got a dry bag strapped on the bow or in a rear well, it isn't that easy to retrieve and use gearing while paddling in a kayak the way it is in a canoe.

Any of the rec canoes favored by the rental companies have good stability (Buffalo, Old Town) and can be found used for a reasonable price.

As for the kayaks, you mostly aren't seeing reviews on the Axis since it is new this year, but it is largely a rebadge Dagger Blackwater, which is, IMO, the best sit-inside rec kayak on the market and was a real staple of the Dagger rec lineup, and is very capable for Class II and II+ water. But it is also a tad narrower than many rec boats, which I like for the maneuverability but you lose a touch of primary stability with it. I don't think the Remix or the Approach makes much sense for your photography application.

[Crane]

Let me offer another path... I have a 9' Outcast IR Discovery pontoon fishing cataraft that might work very well for you. It's wide and extremely stable. It can be rowed ( it has 7' oars) or moved with fins. It also has a mount for an electric trolling motor:) see http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?pf_id=1E97" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for retail info

It might be a good solution for your needs. I'm only asking $450 for it and it's only been on the water once! Let me know if you're interested! CRane 501 Nine Nine 33645