Fisher's Ford and Boater's rights

[unicorn]

So I had a run in with the land owner at fishers ford today who tried to tell me that she owned the riverbed and we were trespassing on private property. I informed her that as I understood state and federal law, any navigable waterway up to the high water mark was usable for recreation and under the rule of the federal government.

She disagreed and even tried to tell me that the Illinois River was not a navigable stream. Now being the reasonable person that I am,I thanked her and apologized for any inconvenience we may have caused and hiked my boat back up the streambed and left. Having just got home I decided to do a little research and came across this little nugget http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cac ... 3nLx6uN3Tg which seems to verify my original stance. I plan on printing and laminating it and keeping it in my boat for future reference. But I can't seem to find anywhere online that tells me without a doubt that the Illinois is indeed classified by the ACOE as a navigable waterway. Does anyone know where I can find that?

If I take this fight much further I fully expect the sheriff to get called out there at some point and hopefully that will settle the matter once and for all. But before I do so, does anyone see any way that I am incorrect in my interpretation of the law?

[Jeremy M]

I too tried to look for a comprehensive list of navigable waterways. While looking, I think on your original link, it mentioned something about navigability not usually being determined until a court case. I did find the number and mailing address of the....

Arkansas Waterways Commission
101 East Capitol Ave. Suite 370
Little Rock, AR 72201
Phone: (501) 682-1173

I'm sure they might know of some kind of list. I did find a link with a list, but it was just the five large main rivers in Arkansas with public "ports of call" ...

Let us know what you find out....

[unicorn]

Acccording to this:

"In 1980, the Arkansas Supreme Court decided that the definition of navigability includes recreational use with its decision in State v. McIlroy (268 Ark. 277). Under this decision, rivers that are used for recreational use, for even part of the year during normal flow, can be considered navigable. "

wouldn't the mere fact that outfitters operate on the Illinois classify it as navigable?

[Jeremy M]

I would think so......

[Sir Kayakalot]

I hate to hear this happened, especially at
the ford, I like to take my son there in the
summer when nothing else is running.
Was this the landowner on the north side
of the river and did they say anything about
where you were parked?

Tommy

[unicorn]

yes, we were on the north side, on the little gravel bank right next to the wave. We parked by the bridge on the south side.

on a side note, apparently HWY59 camp and canoe is running service down that section of the river now, and using the public access on the south side to launch boats. I stopped on my way out and talked to their shuttle driver who said they've had problems there in the past and had even called the police out once because the landowner was threatening boaters with a gun.

[DMG]

I think it was the mountain bikers and picnickers who crossed the field to get to the sand bar that drew the attention of the landowners. Who knows how many other people crossed the field before we got there, too. The crowd was pretty thick. Just saying...

~Dave

[Sir Kayakalot]

I commend you for handling the situation the
way you did, it would be easy to lose your
cool when dealing with someone like that.
I haven't met the lady you ran into, however,
I did have an unpleasant run-in with an older
gentleman, possibly her husband, last summer.
He was toting a pistol, although he never
pointed it at me or my son. I think that feller
is just crazy enough to use it and I would not
be suprised to hear someone getting hurt some
day there.


Tommy

[jermdog]

The land owner issue has been at the ford since way before I was going there. That guy has come up to us on several occasions and said we couldn't hang out on the bank. Once, he called the cops. Benton County's finest came up and said that as long as we weren't in his field it was not a problem and just try not to antagonize him so as to not get the homicide cops over there. When you are leaving, just go up the stream or up the bank on the other side.

[okieboater]

This issue at the Ford has been going on for decades or at least since the 80's or .90's when I started going to Fisher Ford.

Used to be a guy who lived in the house who wore cammies and he might be a veteran of some sort.

He used to come over to the river bank and cast a big treble hook lure into the surf hole when we were surfing. He always had a pistol in full view. He would come over and shout for us to leave his river but we would just look at him. Move over to what used to be a shallow area out of casting range and wait him out. On more than once he would shoot his pistol into the river a very short distance above us. I always thought that one day he was gonna shoot that pistol too close to the boaters and some boater would take the pistol and jam it up his backside (this was discussed quite a bit, but there was always the chance the man might just go off and actually shoot someone).

Like a lot of boaters back in the 90's we would go to the ford in the summer and surf that little hole. Great fun. We would park across the bridge and float down and wade the boats back up and stayed off his land. Finally, it got to be such a hassle to deal with the landowner's harassment that most of the group I paddled with said just too much to deal with. I have not been to the Ford in at least ten years - figured it was not worth the gas money and lunch money we spent in their town for putting up with the harassment.

I always thought that if I owned that bit of land I would put up a gate and a little parking area and charge a buck to park and a buck a boat to launch plus have a iced down cooler of drinks to sell for a couple bucks a pop and make some extra money off the deal. That would be the reasonable thing to do instead of making life miserable when it does not need to be.

I have heard stories of the local sheriff coming out and telling the boaters to leave. Do not know if this is true or not.

I for one would toss in some bucks to start a legal fund and just get the matter settled once and for all. I am very surprised that the guy who used to at least live in the house has not accidently injured some one severely with the fish lure or shot some one or pissed off a boater to the point the boater found out just how tough the ole boy with the pistol and cammies really is.

Good luck with your attempt to be reasonable with the land owners. Just be aware nothing has worked to stop the harrassment for several decades that I am aware of.

[gnick4]

That is unfortunate to have to fight in order to play on a river. The sad part is the landowners have also probably seen plenty of stuff to piss them off. There is no telling what people over the years have done to their property or their actions on the river. Most everyone on here is not like that but you all know of people that would do something that would piss us off if we lived there.
You obviously did the right thing and that takes a lot of will power.

[Mike_P]

Thanks for posting this. I was thinking about trying out my play boat there tomorrow but I think I'll pass. I would be happy to contribute to a legal fund to help settle the issue.

[unicorn]

based on my research, I'm gonna go back out there tomorrow assuming that the law is on my side. If we do have trouble, I'll tell the landowner that he/she is welcome to call the sheriff and we'll see what happens.

[martinm]

Before you hire an attorney and start spending $$$/hr, suggest someone check with the Attorney General's office. Ask for Charles Moulton. I think this issue was hashed out with the Mulberry and Crooked Creek cases years ago.

As I understand it, the water is the public's, it's "Waters of the State", it can be used for recreation, but, the stream bottom is the landowner's. I think the landowner was right in that regard.

Martin

[painterbob]

right, or wrong you are blowing it!! for the rest of us. DO NOT MAKE ANY TROUBLE OUT THERE WE HAD PEACE FOR A LONG TIME NOW.... you were invited out to use this play spot by someone that doesn't abide by the rules that have been set up long before you even knew about it the play spot. please I'm asking you nice as possible don't make any waves with the land owner... yes we know you have rights, and yes we know about the rules of navigation ..doesn't matter at all. so your wasting your time and making and it bad for the people THAT FOLLOW THE RULES, AS A CLUB MEMBER AND FELLOW PADDLER AGAIN I'LL ASK YOU TO STOP because your actions will only add fuel to that fire!!!!