Arkansas Canoe Club Forums

Just a heads up that you might want to be carefull using info from southwest paddler. Found out firsthand this weekend that the access to the eleven point at blacks ferry bridge that the list on there site is not there. Private and heavily posted on both sides of the river (including homade "we don't call 911 sign"). Also no way down to the river from the bridge and no where to park if there were. When I went back to check that I had read the info right, noticed that they list a take out at Old Davidsonville state park. Never been, but I'm pretty sure that is on the BLACK river where it meets the Spring.

Every writer of guidebook type information suffers the same fate - if you can't visit every year, things change. Property is bought and sold; new owners have new expectations and new opinions about allowing access. Rapids change too; old hazards disappear and new ones appear. If you work, you must also collect some of your info from others, and can't verify everything.

Is Southwest Paddler any more, or any less accurate than other sources? I don't know. I'm just saying that even if he has more than his fair share of errors, I'm willing to cut a fairly large amount of slack for anyone who is attempting to share information; especially those who are giving it away for free.

All that said, your report is still a good reminder that we need to use this kind of information for "preliminary" planning, but not consider it as gospel!

Just go to the Photo Gallery of Southwest Paddler and you'll discover the level of incompetence you're dealing with. I especially love the photo in the San Marcos section of the instructor "running the waterfall". Your lovely instructor is paddling a canoe with a kayak paddle and grabbing the gunwales. :roll:

http://www.southwestpaddler.com/docs/ph ... ARCOS.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or running the Medina in a rec kayak without a skirt and swamping in the falls. Classic.

http://www.southwestpaddler.com/docs/photosMEDINA.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Next, read his description of the Tot, especially the Falls. I like the "If you survive running or portaging the falls..." part myself.

http://www.southwestpaddler.com/docs/little4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I only share this because this guy's arrogance and ugliness toward several paddlers in our area has been quite disturbing. He's not doing the paddling community any favors. Just steer clear, and enjoy the rivers with good, competent people like you find in the ACC.

I'm just saying...
BDD

Points taken. In view of our message board guidelines, sounds like we have a few stories to swap at our next campfire meeting...

I wish I could comment on his descriptions...

Whoa, I shouldn't have read that right before the maiden voyage :shock:

However, it does make me feel better knowing I have been running Class IV when the Piney is above 4' (per his Big Piney description)

"where it flows down out of the Ouachita Mountains in the southern Arkansas Ozarks"

Alright seriously, first there are no southern ozarks, in fact they are two entirely different geologic entities (ozarks and ouchitas), anyway from what I read dude don't know.......

At least he's easy to laugh at with the pictures of them being fools

A classic quote I overlooked. The "death wish" one from the Cossatot description:

"The scenery is awesome, and the area is frequented by hikers, photographers, backpackers, bird watchers and other nature lovers who, unlike the paddlers who go to run the Class III-V whitewater downriver, do NOT have a death wish."

Boy you guys can be cruel. Mark McCord aka Canoeman, the man behind Southwest Paddler, does the best he can with very limited resources. He has done a lot for the paddling community -- and has even directed a lot of paddlers to Arkansas and even to the Arkansas Canoe Club both personally and via links on his website. Not one to ever say a disparaging word about others publically he has been involved in many community projects not only supporting paddling but our natural environment and health and welfare of others.

Mark specifically states that "the information presented on Southwest Paddler is for reference purposes only, and is not intended to be an absolute description of the rivers, creeks and streams ...and that rivers and the outdoors environment are dynamic settings that frequently changes due to alterations made by Mother Nature, as well as by man." He makes no claim of absolute accuracy of descriptions but rather only wants to help direct paddlers to rivers and streams of which they may have had no prior knowledge. If he could Mark would paddle every river within his guide to assure the accuracy of his descriptions -- regretfully that is not possible.

But Mark and the Southwest Paddler's shortcomings can be remedied with your assistance. If you can take the time to post your criticisms here publically perhaps you can take the time to drop Mark an e-mail:
canoeman@canoeman.com and offer him your suggestions and updated information. I am sure he would appreciate your input and he'll immediately make whatever corrections or additions are needed with regard to the accuracy of his reports for future paddlers.

Thanks.

I don't know Mark, but I will note that, as always, the opinions here are those of individuals and not of the ACC as a whole. I also want to say that it's hard to create and maintain a web site like SW paddler, and it's hard to keep info. up to date and accurate. Descriptions of "you're gonna die if you run that!" in one decade often become, "scout and then run the left line with a hard right brace" in the next decade. So, in terms of having incomplete or inaccurate info. out there, y'all might want to cut him some slack. Dropping a note to the webmaster is likely to be way more productive than bitchin in a public forum.

As I said a few weeks ago in reference to a national paddling database site, information on the web is caveat emptor - take it with a grain of salt. A good rule of thumb is that the more local the source of the information, the more accurate it is likely to be. This is evidenced all over the web: alabamawhitewater.com, boatingbeta.com, eddyflower.com, etc. Local people maintaining their own sites (their own labors of love) will generally keep things more up to date and accurate than a global, national, or large regional database of river info, even if it is maintained by local "streamkeepers."

- Fish

No good deed goes unpunished!

If you can't laugh at someone else who can you laugh at?

jermdog wrote:If you can't laugh at someone else who can you laugh at?

Yourself! I do this regularly and it helps to keep me sane (along with the dried frog pills)
Or, if you're feeling suicidal, try laughing at your significant other for extended periods, and see how that goes!
Jon Ellwood

fryingsquirrel wrote:

jermdog wrote:If you can't laugh at someone else who can you laugh at?

Yourself! I do this regularly and it helps to keep me sane (along with the dried frog pills)
Or, if you're feeling suicidal, try laughing at your significant other for extended periods, and see how that goes!
Jon Ellwood

Jon,

I've noticed that it IS OK for your Sig. Other to laugh at you though.

Chris