ECO SAFE Toilet System

[Allen Rittman]

Ok, after making a trip on the Middle Fork a few years back it made me aware of the problem of human waste in river corridors. I also liked rowing up to a camp and there were NO fire rings or much sign humans had been there So when I got back I bought a Wag bag system and it works fine for 1 or 2 maybe three people and if it’s a 3 day or more trip the bag deal becomes a problem! If you know what I mean?

So I have found an ECO Safe Toilet system at Boulder Outdoor center for $157 which is basically as cheep as I could find one. So my question is does anyone know where you can get one cheaper than that? It is a complete kit with the seat; clean out hose everything you need. I encourage everyone to do your part as river steward’s and practice leaving no trace. I am also looking at a fire pan for my overnight group campouts. Back in the spring I started taking small bundles of wood and it works really well the fire pan will enhance the campfire experience. They are going to make changes to the way we use the Buffalo and you will more than likely be required to have this equipment at some point in the future. So you can pay now or later! If you pay now maybe the changes we make now will have a positively affect the changes the park service makes later.

[okieboater]

Allen,

That sounds like a pretty good price.

Have you just googled a price?

I applaud you for doing this. I agree that we need to set the goal posts a lot higher for poo disposal on our Buffalo trips.

[GutIt]

I don't really have an answer to your question, Allen.

But I own a Wag Bag System and use it on ALL local trips. Not just limited to the Buffalo. I always have at least a couple of Wags with me even if I am just doing a day run. I have always rented tank-type groovers for my extended western trips or when I am rowing rubber somewhere and have larger groups. Then I have plenty of room to carry a tanker. But I don't own one personally at this time. Wags work well locally and/or if I am canoeing, due to its compact nature. And as you said, smaller groups. But if everyone, or every canoe carried a Wag System you wouldn't even have to worry about the size of the group. At least on the shorter runs. Everyone just be reponsible for their own.

But I just wanted to tell you "Well Said", Brother. I wish more people had your attitude regarding stewardship of our resources. As long as it's carried out one way or another, well, then it's carried out. And that's the point.

Please let us know if you find a better price on the Eco Safe. I'll do the same. I've also done business with Boulder Outdoor, and been to their store. I've always found them to be most helpful and reputable.

Right On!

[Richard]

Way to go Allen. Both waste and fire are important issues and are two of the Leave No Trace Seven Principles. We will be scaling back our fires from what we have been doing in the past. I am still working on a more economical, user friendly and effective alternative to the Eco Safe and wag bag system. If I doesn't work, I will most likely be wagging a bag.

[robkanraft]

For a family or small group doing just an overnight or two on the Buffalo, the eco-safe boom box seems a good way to go. It is certainly more "canoe friendly" than the larger, original rocket-box eco-safe.

Experience with them suggests just don't "overload" them, so buy accordingly with the maximum number of users times the number of days use in mind. Just an fyi, the "wag" systems don't pass the regs on some western river trips, so consider that before purchasing if that use is in your plans.

We just returned from a big prim camping event where the commerical porta potti's took a serious thrashing! Next year I'm taking my own eco-safe.

[okieboater]

I was on an overnight trip with one of the Boom Box units.

My opinion only but those things look pretty delicate to me.

I still vote for the rocket box, maybe pad it a bit with foam strips for use in a canoe.

[Eric Esche]

[quote="Richard"

We will be scaling back our fires from what we have been doing in the past. end quote

I'm all in favor of hauling out what you hauled in via the Ecosafe or rocket box issue, BUT I will take exception on the fire subject. Don't get too defensive now and start quoting all the "principles", but listen, as I have listened to you and Ken.

You can scale back YOUR fire, Kemosabee, but group fires which are larger by nature are better fires. I haven't heard enough complaints about our group fires - from the folks that were with us - to make me want to change my ways yet. Just the opposite - All I seemed to hear was it was worth it and how much everyone enjoyed it, and you were usually one of those favorable commenters. Staring at a fire in the evenings and being mesmorized seems to be a very universal time that appeals to something in us all. I think it is something we look forward to as part of our experience package of camping out as it is not something we do on day trips. What will we remember when we are old enough not to be able to do it anymore? - memories of having had a nice fire, or not having had one. I always look forward to seeing Ken Smith anywhere and particularly to getting to hear him talk about things and life when we can get him or you to open up on a ramble, but what I have heard from some of those who were there was that they will remember "that" time as the one where Ken had them put the hollow log back. Don't think anyone's opinions got changed that trip.

I like you and Ken and respect you both very much, but there comes a point at which one can take or push things too far, very much like gun control. Push too hard and then folks hear NO FIRES AT ALL, and you will drive more folks away from all your goals than you influenced to join you. Maybe my saying all of this will push more folks your way. I do not know, but I do know I will have a fire even if it is just for myself.

I will stop burning things when they pry my blackened coal tongs and stainless steel grill tongs from my cold dead hands. That was supposed to be a joke but it may not be far from the truth. You are about as likely to turn me into a year round vegatarian.

If I gather it or bring it with me, I will still do it. I already try to leave less trace in the USPS campgrounds by bringing with me as much of the wood as I can for the Friday night fires, and only use dead and down materials from the flood zone where possible when I do get stuff there. Park rangers have told me that they do not have a problem with me and others doing that. And I try to haul out anything recyclable rather than leave it to the USPS garbage load. Not claiming to be totally green or politically correct, just do not think I am one of the bad guys. Everything is relative. Lot of grey out there, and sometimes grey is not necessarily bad.

When I am by myself, I make a very small fire, as I am the only one there to enjoy it. More people make a larger group fire, but it really consumes less than many more small fires would, and leaves less burn traces. One good group fire also takes less time and work per person than more fires would, so it makes sense.

AND it was almost always a group effort on our trips from start to finish, although some of us may have encouraged some other folks along the way to help. Never seemed to hear any nay sayers when the temperature dipped, or I got up first in the frost to have it going for folks to thaw frozen stuff by. Seem to have many pleasant memories of sitting around a really nice fire, passing the coal tongs around, burning marshmellows, and just getting mellow in general. What I remember hearing over the pops and cracks of the fire were the almost universal comments saying "That's a nice fire" and the fire always seems to be a central gathering place, where we didn't use our flashlights as much, sort of a mood thing. The exercise of moving our chairs out of the smoke with the shifting winds was probably good for us as well. And when you consider that it was usually ONE group fire in ONE central location, for up to 22 folks, it wasn't that big of a fire. We have always extinquished the group fire to totality and then raked out anything that should not have been left to take home with us. More smaller fires would mean more chances of that not happening.

Eric

[okieboater]

Thanks Eric, I agree with you

The Buffalo fires, setting around them visiting and enjoying the warmth is a key part of the enjoyment.

Many of the western rivers now require a fire blanket.

The use of a fire blanket and a fire pan should allow us to enjoy a big fire or at least the size we have enjoyed on my previous Buffalo trips.

We can enjoy and still meet all the requirements now or in the future with a simple fire pan and a fire blanket.

[robkanraft]

Dave, "The model SK BOOMBOX is a complete system which has a 2.3 gal tank, self storing full sized seat that's been tested to 330 lbs."

Now doesn't that conjure up some mental pictures...

[okieboater]

Maybe it has been improved as it was some years ago when I was on that trip.

Having said that, a 330 lb person doing their business on a tiny boom box would certainly be something to see - hopefully from a distance!

[Clif]

upwind

[robkanraft]

Oh I agree! I think for the price difference between the original and the boom box, the traditional eco-safe is the only way to "go".

[Allen Rittman]

Ok, it has been orderd and I plan on getting the small Cambridge Fire Pan also. Thanks for the discussion and I'm sure there will be many more.

A fire pan allows the fire to be off the ground and closer to body parts you want to warm and it will help manage wood better. Plus it is the right thing to do! The last time I camped at Bice Bend there were 4 fire rings built and a thron type rock structure someone had built and 3 or 4 other places were people had started fires right on top of the rocks. Had those people had fire pans none of that would be there. So my vote is a fire pan and I have been taking bundles of wood with about 12 to 14 sticks of wood 2 to 4 inches in diameter. One bundle per night, now it is not a fire like Eric is talking about and I do love a fire you can see from space but I did not have to look for the wood and get poision Ivy all over me. I set up camp got my wood out of the raft and started enjoying the night!

Practicing Leave No Trace is a choice everyone will have to make. And it is not something you have to commit to 100%. Although that would be nice it is just not relistic. Practicing all seven principals would be nice but if you can obey 3 or 4 of them that is a 50% change and is a good thing. If you can practice all of them 50% of the time that is helping. I have done enough environmental damage for one lifetime so for me it is going to be a 100%.

Anyway enough of that, I hope it rains enough this week we can all go enjoy the river this weekend. And for those of you going on camp trips with me you will now have a place to go and do business!!

[GN YAKN]

OMG!!! :shock:

330 pounds!!! :roll:

That is a lot of Poo..........

Better cut back on the BBQ wraps!

Dang!