Arkansas Canoe Club Forums

First, I’ll have to tip my hat to Fish and Half-Ton, for their recent explanations of why they eventually decided to join our club. Yes, the ACC is not perfect, but they explained their personal journey on the path to membership. In a nutshell, like many others, they have decided that even an imperfect organization can often achieve things that wouldn’t be possible for individuals working alone.

But back to minimizing the cheerleading:

OK, this is really too easy. I’m surprised more folks haven’t figured it out already. The best way to minimize ACC members crowing about how great they think the ACC is, would be to simply stop making negative comments about the ACC on the ACC board. Our message board guidelines begin with these words: "This message board is funded by the Arkansas Canoe Club, and will be monitored and moderated to insure that it presents a positive image of the club and promotes the purposes of the Club, as stated in our by-laws. There should be no expectation by users that this is an unrestricted forum for free speech.” So yes, every once in awhile you have to put up with the ACC promoting the ACC on the ACC message board. (This suprises you?!?) But, if nothing is said, 99% of the time, we’ll go on with the usual chatter; what river is up, what bands are playing in Fayetteville, what events or trips may be upcoming. But if you start dropping hints about something the ACC screwed up on, or state a perception “that the ACC isn’t doing squat about X” or “doesn’t care about Y”, or that our members aren’t friendly enough or helpful enough or haven’t ever done anything that you benefited from, then heck yeah, this is the ACC message board, and the ACC members are going to jump up and start another cheerleading session. If you don’t want to see a fire, don’t strike the match.

When people contact me about a posted float trip, I don’t ask if they are ACC members. When I meet people on the river, I don’t crow about the ACC; I don’t mention my membership, or ask about theirs, unless they bring it up first. If they ask questions, I may point them to http://www.arkansascanoeclub.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, but I also tell them that all paddlers are welcome to sign up; membership is not required or expected. I know that some folks will not want to join any club. I know that other folks may not want to join the ACC, because they may disagree with one or more of our purposes or projects. And yes, some have had an interaction with one or more of our members that was distasteful to them, and so they have decided to hold “the Club”, not those individuals, accountable for these behaviors. But for those that are open to the idea, I try to let the ACC “sell itself”. For many, the economic considerations make it cheaper to be a member than to not be a member. For example, all members get discounts at some stores; and members near central Arkansas can have dozens of roll sessions, with some informal instruction if desired, at UALR. Where else can someone get indoor pool access for less than $1 per hour? But even if you don’t live in an area where you can take advantage of these economic benefits, you might still want to support the ACC for other reasons after you learn more about what we’re doing. But that is your call; I’ll “cheerlead” and tell you about some of the pies the Club has it’s finger in; but I’ll still leave it to you to decide if that is a project list you want to support, or not. And your decision will have no impact on whether or not I intend to have a good time with you the next time we get to paddle together.

Yes, there is a part of me that would like to see the ACC grow even bigger. As the size of the Club grows, its ability to achieve goals grows; we have a stronger voice on conservation and access issues, we have more financial resources when that is what is needed, politicians know our officers are representing a significant number of voters, and we have a bigger pool of volunteers to draw on for projects of interest.

But that said, on the river, I really don’t care if you are an ACC member or not. I don’t care if you hail from Oklahoma, or Arkansas, or Louisiana, or even (gasp) Texas. I don’t care if you “top out” at Class V, or at Class I.

So, here’s what I recommend:
1) If you just don’t want to hear about the ACC at all, then don’t drop small negative comments about the ACC that ACC supporters will feel obliged to respond to.
2) If you want to talk negatively about the ACC and would like to have others confirm that they see it the same way you do, then your best bet is to post on Boater Talk or maybe the PaddleTexas board. If you post negative stuff here, it can only end in a limited number of ways; it can get moderated or removed, or it can be ignored, or it can end in an ACC shout-down love-fest that makes even some of our most staunch supporters squirm in their seats.
3) If your goal is to provide us some constructive criticism so that we can be better people and a better club, then by all means, post it here. But be gentle with us; we’re people too.
4) Even with constructive criticism, please understand that we’ll probably be defensive and reply with a bunch of pro-ACC counterpoints. But that doesn’t mean we aren’t listening, too. Your feedback will make us better. If that is not your goal too, then this really isn’t the right website to be posting on.

Cowper wrote:they have decided that even an imperfect organization can often achieve things that wouldn’t be possible for individuals working alone.

I agree here

Cowper wrote:But back to minimizing the cheerleading:

The best way to minimize ACC members crowing about how great they think the ACC is, would be to simply stop making negative comments about the ACC on the ACC board.

3) If your goal is to provide us some constructive criticism so that we can be better people and a better club, then by all means, post it here. But be gentle with us; we’re people too.
4) Even with constructive criticism, please understand that we’ll probably be defensive and reply with a bunch of pro-ACC counterpoints. But that doesn’t mean we aren’t listening, too. Your feedback will make us better. If that is not your goal too, then this really isn’t the right website to be posting on.

Don't these statements contradict each other?

Cowper wrote:So, here’s what I recommend:
1) If you just don’t want to hear about the ACC at all, then don’t drop small negative comments about the ACC that ACC supporters will feel obliged to respond to.
2) If you want to talk negatively about the ACC and would like to have others confirm that they see it the same way you do, then your best bet is to post on Boater Talk or maybe the PaddleTexas board. If you post negative stuff here, it can only end in a limited number of ways; it can get moderated or removed, or it can be ignored, or it can end in an ACC shout-down love-fest that makes even some of our most staunch supporters squirm in their seats.

This is where I have the problem, and please note my cool blue name indicating I pay membership, don't go to meetings and don't want to. I am not a person that likes big group events like Rendevous, Surf n Turf, or Canoe School. But I like the discounts, SOME of the conservation and access work being done, and mostly the message board. However, there seems to be a lot of cheerleaders and promoters among us that think the club does no wrong. I have always had an issue with why certain issues could not be discussed online but others could, then we created the exclusive members forum. This is where I thought I would see some discussions on what the club is helping to support/fund, but all that ever seems to be posted is the newsletter and the board minutes. The board minutes seem to contain stuff that has already been decided and further discussion would be pointless and viewed as negative if you were opposed to it. And why exactly is it that the board minutes and newsletter have to be listed in a private forum, kinda makes it look like there is something to hide.

As far as the disagreement going on in the Intervention thread, stopped reading that one as soon as the bickering started.

Also think you better get ready for it on this one. Note the chicken to incite the riot.

there ya go.

cowper stated: "If you just don’t want to hear about the ACC at all, then don’t drop small negative comments about the ACC that ACC supporters will feel obliged to respond to. "


let's look at this in reverse. If a post was made that claimed full ACC credit and somewhat dissed non-members who were involved, then would that create an situation where non-members feel obliged to respond?

I second tomcat's post.

As the size of the Club grows, its ability to achieve goals grows; we have a stronger voice on conservation and access issues, we have more financial resources when that is what is needed, politicians know our officers are representing a significant number of voters, and we have a bigger pool of volunteers to draw on for projects of interest.

True dat

so who likes philosophy, spirituality, or religion ? All of these topics in a roundabout way are directly or indirectly related to this whole discussion based on 1 premise, Balance.

Balance is good, balance is real, balance is the nature of the universe. When things are not balanced they will ultimately work their way there to the point of equilibrium (Dr. Allen - I know you are proud that I remember some stuff about a limiting reagent and thermodynamic equilibrium).

There is no all good, there is no all bad, everything is a mix of good and bad - period.

Example: oxygen is great to breathe, not so great when your house is burning down.

Another Example: Water is great, until a tidal wave or flood takes your house.

No matter how bad the O2 or H2O can be, we still need them both to live.

My fave example though is the yin and yang as related to ACC or Non-ACC. Non-ACC has a lot to gain from ACC, ACC has a lot to gain from Non-ACC. Obviously there are differences between the two groups and the groups are not always ready to mix, BUT it is in the best interest of all members of both groups to work together for the reasons Cowper and others have stated and more.

I can see how it is easy to only look at differences, and where everyone has a slightly different perception or take on the subject. There can be no argument though that the ACC can't benefit from non-clubbers. It is in the ACC interest to listen too non members, treat non members with respect and dignity, recruit non members into the club and to look for ways to make the club grow.

Like-wise the Non-ACC , formerly me, and a bunch of others out there right now, do benefit greatly from all the ACC has done and can still do in the future. Non ACC does have a lot to thank ACC for and should treat ACC members with respect and dignity. ACC and non-ACC would be a much more powerful tool for all things good related to water access, conservation, education and etc.

The more a team atmosphere exists, the greater the impact of the Boaters for Boater related gootch. Sure, there will be hiccups. The more that similarities and common grounds are focused on though, the more we can all see the benefit for just one group - paddlers.

Back to reality though, Pi$$in contests will always occur and can never be stopped unless drastic measures are taken. Drastic measures would not be good for paddlers overall.

So, as long we can at least openly talk about stuff, maybe we can all see each others points of view and realize that we are all way better mixed in together than scattered apart.

We all love boating, finding our pals stolen boats, and working to increase or maintain our boating access points. Overall, We are way better off together than apart.

$ 4.20

Actually Cowp, what the ACC really needs is real cheerleaders, complete with uniforms and pom-poms. This cheerleading team could attend official events and get the crowd that much more energized than they already typically are already.

Half Ton wrote:

Back to reality though, Pi$$in contests will always occur and can never be stopped unless drastic measures are taken. Drastic measures would not be good for paddlers overall.

So, as long we can at least openly talk about stuff, maybe we can all see each others points of view and realize that we are all way better mixed in together than scattered apart.

We all love boating, finding our pals stolen boats, and working to increase or maintain our boating access points. Overall, We are way better off together than apart.

$ 4.20

WELL PUT, SOMEONE GIVE HIM A OR

Excellent! Half Ton! As I lurk through all this drin, no one has said it better. How about

knu2xs wrote:Actually Cowp, what the ACC really needs is real cheerleaders, complete with uniforms and pom-poms.

Joel - How about THIS?

You with me Pam?

Link above doesn't work unless you are a member of facebook.

I second the BIG pom-poms....

Lifejacket wrote:Link above doesn't work unless you are a member of facebook.

Fixed the problem (Dennis - are these big enough for you?)

yes sir....