whitewater boating down 70%?....

[tomcat]

interesting discussion over on BT.

http://boatertalk.com/forum/Boatertalk/1604829" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

seems the numbers are down significantly and due to many factors.

[RomanLA]

They're basing that off of new boat sales. That's a pretty weak argument, when you consider the number of quality used boats available.

[tomcat]

did you read it?

Point being made that not nearly as many boaters on the rivers and at play spots. That would include both new boats and used boats NOT being seen out there.

[RomanLA]

Point being made that not nearly as many boaters on the rivers and at play spots. That would include both new boats and used boats NOT being seen out there.

That's subjective...the only solid facts I saw were boat sales. Although, it wouldn't surprise me if the number of boaters goes in cycles. The same thing has been happening in skateboarding for the last 30 years.

[tomcat]

subjective from some of the industry's leading paddlers and innovators/developers. Do you recognize the names in that thread?

[Fish]

Yeah, I was out on Lee Creek yesterday and saw a total of zero boaters. Whitewater boating's down 100% here right now.

Too many used boats on the market, not enough improvement in designs to make the new ones more desirable. I agree that it's not necessarily fewer whitewater boaters, but definitely way fewer new boats being sold. This would seem to indicate that there is little if any growth in whitewater right now, possibly a decline. I was talking with a major outdoor outfitter yesterday who had 80 boats coming in on a truck. I asked how many were whitewater boats, and the reply: zero. Rec boats and canoes are what's really selling new - that's definitely the growth area in paddling right now. It's so much more accessible than whitewater boating, so no big surprise.

On that note, I've been trying to drum up more activity in rec/lake boating in NW Chapter for a while. Eric leads summertime floats on Beaver Lake, and I would think a ton of folks would take advantage of that. Also, it's been super hard to push forward any non-whitewater initiatives - like a water trail. I think that's because, though whitewater boaters are outnumbered big time, they represent a very active and vocal minority. The ease and accessibility of rec/touring translates into not as much need to organize and get involved in a more formal way. Of course, that doesn't apply to everyone, and maybe I'm wrong. What's the key to getting rec/touring boaters as fired up as whitewater boaters?

- Fish

[Zach]

The graph looks pretty bad to me.
They have data from 2001,2002, 2003, and 2004, they then extrapolate out another 3 years? That doesn't make sense. It says they are based on the participant to enthusiest ratio from other years, but the two lines clearly have a poor relationship to each other.

If anything the drop in 'participants' may be based on those who now know they were actually in a rec boat all those times they thought they were in a whitewater kayak. Really hard to tell.

[Fish]

If anything the drop in 'participants' may be based on those who now know they were actually in a rec boat all those times they thought they were in a whitewater kayak. Really hard to tell.

Now that's an excellent observation. There are indeed many factors that can influence trends in data.

- Fish

[RomanLA]

I wonder if we're having retention problems, due to a harder learning curve. If a person borrows a playboat and spends their first day on whitewater getting beat down, they may not come back. That's probably why Liquid Logic is pushing their new XP series as a good boat for instructors taking people out for their first whitewater experience.

[Graham]

I suppose another question could be is paddling is slowly down disproportionately compared to other recreational sports.

I don't think looking at the manufacturer numbers really gives you a good idea of what people are actually doing with their time. Especially with incomplete data as Zach mentioned. I think there are many factors which are keeping people from buying new boats not just lack of new boaters. I don't recommend new boats to any new paddlers I know.

Gaming? Please. Just for personal reference the height of my online gaming was also the height of my days in the water per year. Both have dropped significantly unfortunately. Kids do game lots more but that's not stopping them from getting out and boating. The type of kid/person that gets into paddling to begin with usually won't let a video take the place of the outdoors. While there are many kids spending many hours in front of screens I think the ones that would paddle to begin with have no issues pulling themselves away.

All that being said I haven't been getting out in the popular destinations much lately so I don't know if less people are boating first hand. What are you guys seeing in the state? Does it appear disproportionate to other sports if so?

[bryanpin]

Corran just likes to hear Corran post. No one is showing up to his river everyday because he's there!

[Eric Esche]

[quote="Fish"] What's the key to getting rec/touring boaters as fired up as whitewater boaters?

Well, don't know that you will ever get rec boaters as rapid/rabid as whitewater boaters, BUT publishing notice of more trips, and on a regular basis would help, and then posting pictures of the fun we have.

The Lewis and Clark stores in Rogers and Springdale used to host what they called their Friday Night Freebie Paddles, where folks who already had their gear, beginners to experts, and folks who wanted to try out demo gear from the stores could come out to the lake for an evening 5 mile paddle. We provided lights for the boats if we were coming back after dark and that added to the magic to see a string of paddle boats coming across the lake all lit up. It was just an excuse to come out and paddle and get together with other boaters, and it worked most of the time with as many as 30 folks attending on some trips. As there are no "facilities" at Monte Ne, we often had folks come by our house here and we arranged after paddle feeds here a few times that really worked out well as we continued "the paddler experience" over food and beverages on our screened porch, even dragging out the slide projector and photo albums. Susan liked it even when she got home too late to paddle with us as she said it reminded her of when we lived in Clayton,GA, and our house was known as the "Chattooga Hilton". (We had paddlers staying with us sometimes 30+ weekends a year when we lived in Clayton, to the point that some paddlers would call to see if they could get a "reservation", and one motel up there would call us to see if we could put up a paddler(s) when there were full. WE were accorded the "Hilton" status by some paddlers when it was observed that none of the motels in the area could say they served orange juice and champagne with breakfast, it being a dry county.)
I think the Lewis and Clark stores stopped doing the Friday Night Freebie paddles due mostly to timing conflicts with their store hours and the distance from their stores, but I still have folks stop me on the lake and drop by my house asking when they will start up again even though I do not work for Lewis and Clark. I wind up going on paddles with most of these folks, and these trips usually do not get written up, but we still have fun. Would be nice if Pack Rat, Lewis and Clark, or Ozark Mountian Trading company would start something like this back up again, but no reason why our club couldn't do the same thing. Maybe a joint effort between the club AND these stores would work as it would be of benefit to us all. Hot dog and hamburger roasts sure taste good after an evening paddle, and they could do them at a place like Horseshoe bend if they wanted public facilities, and maybe even get the Corps involved.

David Dempsy, Patsy Green and I, have done probably a dozen winter trips on the White River below Beaver dam on his days off from the paper where he is a photographer (usually Mondays or Tuesdays). Some times we put in below the dam and set shuttle, other times we put in at the town of Beaver and paddle up stream, or at Houseman Access and do the same so we have no shuttle to set. We normally do not post these trips as they are of too little time notice. IF anyone else has days off during the week, we could post notices of trips and do some. David's trips are usually last minute affairs or spur of the moment as his schedules at the paper can be erratic. I don't make all of his and Patsy's trips, due to honey-dos or things on my schedule, but we do go and have a great time.

I think having "Whitewater" types come along on these trips helps also as beginners see that quiet water can be as fun as Rapids to the very experienced. Ryan Center came along on one of our Buffalo trips this past fall and I think it was obvious from his smiles and participation that he had a great time with us. We all enjoyed having a member of "Team Stupid" come with us and hope he comes along when ever he can and maybe bring his family along on future trips. He really added to our group's total fun level.

Another point towards getting more participation is that we could stress, as we have tried to, that recreational boating can be a family wide event that is "kid" friendly and makes for life long memories and better parent-child bonding. We have had several trips with kids along as young as 4 that both parents and children had a great time on.

Another way to get more participation is to fill up those empty seats in canoes or your spare boats with a child or first timer. Invite a neighbor or co-worker who has listened to your paddleing stories for years, and get them hooked by taking them on something scenic or recreational to leave them with a taste of how much fun it can be. I hadn't paddled tandem in over 20 years until last fall and I had forgotten how much fun tandem boating can be. I try to fill that seat now and hope I have a bow partner in the making. You can teach a beginner a lot when you have them all to yourself in a day's paddle and work at it, catching eddies, doing ferrys, surfing little ripples, and doing peelouts, back ferries, and racing to catch up. Before you know it, they have all the strokes down and you no longer see them chicken choking a paddle. Great pleasure in having them start reading rapids exactly as you do and always leaning, bracing, and stroking in time with you as if you are telepathically connected. You get even more time with them when you do an overnight camping trip. Great food, hot showers, back rub sessions, camp fires, marshmellow roasts, and star gazing can be a bonus as well.

And speaking of getting hooked, arrange some trips for fishermen/women. These trips tend to be timed differently as folks drift in and out of the group as they stop off to hit holes or go off to work ahead or behind the group. You can still do this on most trips, but it helps when they do not feel pressured to stay with a group. We generaly do this by having a buddy system where someone always knows where someone is at for safety. Again Pictures of folks having fun and the fish caught or being caught help get more folks involved on future trips. Most of the fisherfolks I know are catch and release folks, but I am more of a "whatchagonnaeat" type of hook slinger. Tasting the fried results of a days float can be awfully nice, paticularly when camped out next to a fire on a gravel bar. I will bring a fry pot and oil if I know we are going to eat fish, but I'm still not going to NOT bring other food, as I am not that confident fishing without dynomite or a telegraph.

I know there are lots of guide books out there telling you most of the information you want or need to know about where to go in our state particularly for hiking or on the Buffalo, but trip reports with pictures often go beyond what is in the books, and to places they never mentioned. If we could start posting a "river beta" section for trip reports similar to what is sometimes done on the Ozark Mountain Paddlers message board, I think we would get more folks taking and posting trips as they read about what other folks have done.

My suggestions - YMMV.

Eric

[tomcat]

I think that the increase in gas prices have had a big impact as whitewater boating is driving intensive. I know that after 32+ years, that I have grown tired of the road. I think this can be seen with the increase with other outdoor sports like road biking where I can leave my house on my bike and never move my car/truck.

Also, the aging of the baby boomers like myself is a factor. There were so many boomers that there had to be a bell curve to participation...and we're now on the waning side of the curve.

Also also...too many boat design changes was something that turned me off some toward this sport. I just got tired of even trying to keep up and quit buying new boating gear.

[Clif]

In an economy that was struggling long before it hit the headlines, you may have big point there Tcat. We know boating ain't cheap.. and the before mentioned gas prices.

[Trismegistus]

Demographics! Like Tomcat said - "the aging of the baby boomers like myself is a factor. There were so many boomers that there had to be a bell curve to participation...and we're now on the waning side of the curve."

And it is not just age -- race and culture are having a significant impact as well. African Americans and Hispanics probably now comprise over 25% of the population and is growing. Yet when I look around at the meetings and on the rivers with few exceptions I see mostly Caucasians of European descent - a racial group that is expected to become a plurality of the overall US population after the year 2050.

I love to paddle and love to share my enthusiasm for our state's marvelous works and wonders but if the door remains closed to new paddlers and the number of white-water paddlers continues to fall I won't mind finding silent emptiness and lonely experiences on our rivers and streams.

Signed -- The Lone Wolf