Why don`t WW paddlers cross over

[potterspoint434]

As I`m trying to put together the Arkansas River Kayak and Canoe Race in June. I was wondering why WW paddlers don`t paddle flat water.
The Memphis group I paddle with are WW paddlers or have been. They are a very active group of racers .
The people that race kayaks and canoe in Ar are few in numbers.
There are 3 or 4 kayak racers and several groups of canoe racers in the state.
I just don`t get it, with all the lakes and rivers in the state you don`t have to go very far to paddle. I paddle on the Ar River a couple times a week in the winter and more when getting ready for races.
I have only seen a couple of paddlers in my 5 or 6 yrs of paddling.
I just enjoy being on the water and don`t understand with the strong base of WW paddlers we have ,why flat water paddling and racing has not caught on in Arkansas??
Maybe you can tell I`m trying to decide if it is worth having the race or not.
This is the biggest K &C race in the state and there are more out of state racers there than in state. I don`t get It!

[Lupe]

Well, first of all, I think there are quite a few ww paddlers who also paddle flatwater, because I do both, and I often do flatwater trips with folks who are also ww paddlers. WW ends up taking priority due to the rain-dependent nature of ww...so if it rains, I will always grab the ww while it lasts, since the flatwater options tend to always be there (or at least some are always there).

But it sounds like you are asking not just about flatwater paddling, but racing on flatwater, specifically, and that I'm not interested in. I would consider that a different category altogether.

When I paddle flatwater, it is to enjoy a leisurely, usually quiet paddle looking for wildlife or enjoying nature. Looking for wildlife, I find a quiet, steady pace in my canoe is a pretty stealthy way to travel through the swamps and bayous. When I'm out there doing this type of flatwater paddling, I am NOT trying to go fast, and would not want to be with a group trying to set a quick pace...that's just not why I'm out there. I see way more when I can take my time to take in all my surroundings. Plus, my flatwater canoe (a mohawk solo 14), while I think it's a great little canoe, it's not built for speed.

I did have a 17 ft sea kayak for awhile which was pretty quick and for fun I raced it one year in the Arkansas River race (the 4 mile section). I enjoyed the experience, but it was not something I had any interest in investing regular time training to improve my speed or endurance. I eventually sold the sea kayak because I just didn't use it often enough.

Anyway - just wanted to respond that there IS a group of ww paddlers who flatwater paddle...but as for going the next step towards flatwater racing....I would say that's a very different thing. I guess I just don't see the two (flatwater paddling vs. flatwater racing) as necessarily the same. I greatly enjoy my flatwater paddling, but my goals and rewards I get from it are very different than what they might be from racing. I guess the type of rewards I might get from racing (such as skill improvement, thrill, accomplishment) are things I already get from ww (but in a non competitive setting).

Anyway - those are just my 2 cents on different types of paddling...

[DeBo]

Actually, there are quite a few here who paddle on flat water but not as many as elsewhere it seems. The ACC started out as a whitewater club and we seem to have had a culture of belief that whitewater is some how superior to flatwater but that has been changing for some time. We created the recreation/touring forum mainly for flatwater paddlers. I paddle both whitewater and flatwater and love both. I enjoy being outdoors on the water, relaxing and seeing all the beautiful places we have in Arkansas but I have no desire to compete on flatwater or whitewater. That is just not what I get outside for. Competing stresses me out; I don't know about anyone else.

[DeBo]

Wow! Lupe! We posted at the same time and said essentially the same thing. Great minds I guess, but "She of Many Words" just filled in all the details!

[paddledog]

For me its the addition of competition to paddling.
I paddle flat water, but I would never race.
The only competition in paddling for me is me against the river.
This is the same reason I don't play boat ball.
IMHO it ruins the symbiotic relationship I have with water.
Just my two cents.

[GutIt]

Funny, but I have had this conversation only recently with some cool new friends I made on the Buffalo.

I know quite a number of WW boaters who crossover, myself included. I, personally don’t know why anyone wouldn’t, but that’s just me, I suppose.

I guess for me, my competition is me against myself. I believe that you cannot “beat” the River.

And one is superior to the other only as much as apples are superior to oranges!

Which one do I love the most?

Which ever one I happen to be doing at the moment!

[potterspoint434]

You guys are right I should have used the words Race or paddle for fitness. There are plenty of flat water paddlers but few that race.
I guess that people that ride bikes do it for fitness so I guess I wondered why more people didn`t paddle for the same reason.
I just like to compete and it drives me to work out.

I just look at the number of people in surrounding states that race I wonder
why there is so few in Arkansas.
Any day I can be on the water is a good day for me

[Richard]

Paddling WW doesn't require an entry fee.
I would be interested in trying it . . . just to see how really bad I am.
But then it involves special boats?
Is there a catagory for a well used and patched Old Town Discovery 169?

[potterspoint434]

There are classes for all sorts of boats
The race was canceled last year because of the river flow but will be June 13 2009.
The race this year will start a new new place at Murray Park in Little Rock and everyone will race the same course a 7 mile race.
There will be 21ft surf skis that weigh under 20lbs and about 17 inches wide to people in WW boats. Its fun just to look at all the canoes and kayaks.
I have not had the web site updated yet but here it is
http://www.paddlearkansas.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GutIt]

There sure is a special category, Richard!

Its called "Elite"!

[DeBo]

There is competition in whitewater also; whitewater slalom and whitewater rodeo. Those require entry fees also, Richard

I really don't know why we aren't more involved in competition. Maybe if we had a big sponsored race like the Texas Water Safari in the state to inspire us or one with a really large cash prize, we might be more inclined to train for it.

What about starting "The Great White River Expedition Race?" It could start in Fayetteville and end at the Arkansas Post on the Arkansas River. That would be amazing!

[GutIt]

Lest we forget whitewater downstream!

Just wanted to mention in case anyone thinks Richard is yanking you?

I have not only seen him with my own eyes, but I have him on film surfing his fully loaded Ultracanoe while his lovely and charming bow partner is splayed out all over the front deck catching rays with feet dangling! He was surfing with one hand, and gunning pictures with the other!

The man knows no fear!

[Donald]

Arkansas has managed to come in the top ten in states points at the USCA national races. The current Aluminum Mens Master tandem canoe and Womens Open tandem canoe champions reside here. As well as the Man/Jr champs and the Texas state champ in solo and men master tandem. Last years Women Jr tandem, solo and mixed national champ is from AR. Did I forget to mention that the local Venture crew 300 is also 5 time winners of the National Boy Scout Invitational canoe race. This year was a little down from last year and we only had 29 teams with about 90 scouts participating in the race. High gas prices had a lot to do with it. Several of our races were cancelled due to the flooding this year, so that may have made it seem like we weren't getting out to race. There are number of us canoe racers here in Russellville. Now enough typing I need to spend some quality time on my paddling machine getting ready for next year.

[Eric Esche]

I have paddled a fair amount of whitewater, and do mostly flat to scenic water now. Still have ethe witewater urges though. I have raced in the distant past - 35 years ago. Gates and down river stuff. Now, when I sprint, (which I do somewhat regularly), it is only when by myself to condition muscles and work on staying in shape. I measure my efforts on a known course with a watch, but it is just for self evaluation. I'm 57 with less than half a heart left. I considered a race for fun with friends once last year on the Mulberry, but then found myself returning to old ways of considering all the things to win with and then remembered that is how things stop being fun, so I guess I am more paddler than racer.

Racers, or at least the ones I ran into across the SE US back in the 70's tended to be a breed apart with a different mindset than most whitewater paddlers. For the racers, it seemed to be the competition with others that drove them. For whitewater paddlers, it seemed to be the competition with one's own skills, training, and judgement that drove them. Competition with other paddlers is usually viewed with a sense of wrongness, as it seems counter-comradeship, unless it is for fun among friends with stakes no higher than a beer or a laugh and not to be taken serriously. Whitewater paddlers do it for fun with friends and racing seems to take the fun out of it. Fun, friends, and racing were rare combinations back in the 70's for most racers from what I saw. Politics were rampent in the race scenes and judging at some races could be blatent with favoratism towards local favorites. I stopped racing and went back to paddleing.

and Richard has a point - Racing tends to add a whole 'nother set of specialized gear to buy, maintain, and constantly up grade, and with more fees to pay. Don't see many racers taking their race gear down the river or creeks, or coming out to play boat ball with us, unless it might be something that could be used in the Green River race (and that to most whitewater paddlers is an acceptable race, where you first worry about surviving the run and then worry about your time.) For most racers, your race gear is used for racing and race training alone. Racing for most racers is an end in itself and a whole world apart from other forms of paddleing.

It's not that we don't like racers, it's that they rarely interact with us, and they tend to be more solo acts. Horse analogy I could use is Dressage riders or show jumpers, and endurance riders. There are a few who do both, but it is a very small percentage. Those saddles are specialized as well. You can do dressage in an endurance saddle and you could in theory ride endurance in a dressage saddle, but you do not see it being done.

Your waves may vary from mine. It's all water and its all different for every person.

Eric Esche

[DeBo]

That's great Donald! I knew there were some racers out there somewhere. Their just to busy training to mess around with us bums.

Do you know a guy named Butch from Russelville who used to run the Texas Water Safari?