Arkansas Canoe Club Forums

rugger wrote:Is there a place to put one of those at the put in area for the floaters?

Mike S wrote:

R_Corter wrote:Some things I took note of when I went back and read these fabulous 6 pages.

These are in no particular order!
1. Unlawful searches of personal belongings. People do take multiple day trips in the state on our beloved waters. I do think that digging through a persons dry bags is a violation of our 4th Amendment rights."The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Agreed

4. Change in the law to require livery owners have there customers sign a disclosure of notice on the state laws on boating and glass on the water, have been made available to them. Agreed

5. Change in law to hold livery owners responsible for prohibited(glass)items in there rented equipment. let me get this straight you would have me a Livery owner be held responsible for glass in a rented boat that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. What would I do violate their rights and dig through their stuff.... Kinda like holding Enterprise car rental accountable for a renter breaking a traffic law.

I kept point # 1 in the quote so you could see the irony!

we66erno1 wrote:I wonder who's responsibility it is to put these signs up. Because if i was an attorney, I would call that any ticket given to anyone on a waterway where a sign is not erected, a unlawful ticket. Below is the actual location, chapter and verse of the State's requirement to notify the public.

8-6-410. Notice to the public required.
The state shall erect signs containing pertinent portions of this subchapter along the public highways of
this state and in all campgrounds and trailer parks, forestlands, and recreational areas, at all public beaches,
and at other public places where persons are to be informed of the existence and content of this subchapter
and the penalties for violating its provisions.
History. Acts 1977, No. 883, § 8; A.S.A. 1947, § 82-3908.

****I wonder if you could call the enforcement of the above law nullified before a judge, if a sign was not erected.

All rental/livery companies should be required to have a form that explains the rules of the river, when it comes to glass, mesh bags, Styrofoam, floating devices, and other rules concerning the laws of a rented "vessel" that is not a part of this exception: "Vessel" shall not include a houseboat, party barge, johnboat, runabout, ski boat, bass boat, or
similar craft not easily susceptible to swamping, tipping, or rolling Agreed

And if someone disagrees with that, please notice that all livery owners are required to provide a mesh bag and a PFD. Either because of Game and Fish or because of their insurance. I am not required to do any of this but but do ...well because it just makes sense furthermore I want all of our renters to be in compliance with the law and at the very least aware of the law.

And in my opinion all livery companies should be held responsible for any glass that is not exempted from the law,found in their rented equipment. I promise that will have a quicker impact, then putting up signs. Because most people that have invested in their own gear, have an understanding of the laws concerning their new 'Vessel". Not saying everyone, but most do.

Mike S wrote: On a side note I would be willing to allow the use of my canoes for river clean up projects free of charge .....some restrictions may apply but if its a genuine effort to clean up a water way just let me know I know it is difficult sometimes to use personal boats for a clean up due to size, airbags and outfitting.

R_Corter wrote:Some things I took note of when I went back and read these fabulous 6 pages.I do not support all the things listed! Just want to make that clear!

These are in no particular order!
1. Unlawful searches of personal belongings. People do take multiple day trips in the state on our beloved waters. I do think that digging through a persons dry bags is a violation of our 4th Amendment rights."The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
2. Signs that contain the correct language of the law. Signs should distributed as law states they should be.
3. Education of laws,it seems the AG&F is only interested in writing tickets. AG&F web site and boating laws handbook have been incorrect since 2003. Stating incorrect information on the use of mesh litter bags. ( Enforcement Without Education).
4. Change in the law to require livery owners have there customers sign a disclosure of notice on the state laws on boating and glass on the water, have been made available to them.
5. Change in law to hold livery owners responsible for prohibited(glass)items in there rented equipment.
6. False Enforcement of laws. WO need to know the laws when out enforcing them (Mesh bag is not required when no foodstuffs are on board and or a secure container is available).
7. Educate & Enforce laws at Launch sites before the public gets on the water. Prevent Littering!
8. Excess use of Alcohol. Get the Public Intox off the water. Laws in place to handle some of this (public intox, over possession, MIP......).
9. Put Wildlife Officers in Canoe/Kayaks. Get a presence on the river. They get on every other body of water in the state with the fancy bass boats. Get some nice canoes and kayak's and get r done.
10. Enforcement of actual littering (swamped tubes, canoes and kayak's with unsecured gear).
11. New laws on secure cooler and sturdy containers. The current law states( seal or lock in the contents to prevent the contents from spilling in to the water). Ive seen lots of coolers with factory seal's spill in to the water.

12. Change law to require canoes kayaks, and rafts to register. Money generated could go to the stream team and pay for the registration decal. Registration would help Identify crafts for the public and law enforcement. It may would help prevent some littering if they know there craft can be identified. Indecent exposures and drunkenness could be reported and authorities would know what and where to look for the perps.

#12 I just threw in see what some of you think.......... no biggie if its not well received.
If I left any good ideas out please feel free to discuss add, remove or alter!

Mike S wrote:

we66erno1 wrote:I wonder who's responsibility it is to put these signs up. Because if i was an attorney, I would call that any ticket given to anyone on a waterway where a sign is not erected, a unlawful ticket. Below is the actual location, chapter and verse of the State's requirement to notify the public.

8-6-410. Notice to the public required.
The state shall erect signs containing pertinent portions of this subchapter along the public highways of
this state and in all campgrounds and trailer parks, forestlands, and recreational areas, at all public beaches,
and at other public places where persons are to be informed of the existence and content of this subchapter
and the penalties for violating its provisions.
History. Acts 1977, No. 883, § 8; A.S.A. 1947, § 82-3908.

****I wonder if you could call the enforcement of the above law nullified before a judge, if a sign was not erected.

All rental/livery companies should be required to have a form that explains the rules of the river, when it comes to glass, mesh bags, Styrofoam, floating devices, and other rules concerning the laws of a rented "vessel" that is not a part of this exception: "Vessel" shall not include a houseboat, party barge, johnboat, runabout, ski boat, bass boat, or
similar craft not easily susceptible to swamping, tipping, or rolling Agreed

And if someone disagrees with that, please notice that all livery owners are required to provide a mesh bag and a PFD. Either because of Game and Fish or because of their insurance. I am not required to do any of this but but do ...well because it just makes sense furthermore I want all of our renters to be in compliance with the law and at the very least aware of the law.

And in my opinion all livery companies should be held responsible for any glass that is not exempted from the law,found in their rented equipment. I promise that will have a quicker impact, then putting up signs. Because most people that have invested in their own gear, have an understanding of the laws concerning their new 'Vessel". Not saying everyone, but most do.

I have seen one other post regarding this.... in short how is this right how will it help and how could it be implemented? I also would disagree with the point of most owners know and follow the rule especially with the influx of tubers and hillbillies that found out you can buy a kayak at Walmart for just shy of $200 or a tube for $10. I can assure you of this every boat we put on the water will have a litter-bag attached (thanks to Cowper) , properly fitted vests, FREE koozie if needed and a renter that is aware of the boating laws and starting next year will sign a form stating they have read and understand the AR boating Laws. For these reasons the thought of me being held responsible for a renters ability to sneak a pint of rum past the anal cavity search we should be required to to perform upsets me greatly!!!

PS I have never seen a litter bag tied to a Tube

GaryPaladino wrote: 1) The law as written seems to consider a raft on a river as an item "easily swamped". Since I know someone who got a ticket for not having a koosie on her coca cola can (not beer) while sitting in the center of a 12+ foot raft while wearing a life jacket, I feel justified in saying that sometimes the letter of the law is enforced over the intent.

GaryPaladino wrote: 3) It amazes me that while writing this law the lawmakers seemed to only consider what I'll call the "river canoe, drunk littering problem" (and certainly one exists). But, if the intent was to prevent littering of our waterways, why did they focus so much on canoes, kayaks, and rivers? My point is that by this law houseboats, skiboats, etc are exempted. I again speak from considerable experience when I say that it's a heck of a lot easier to loose a beer can in the lake from a skiboat at 30mph than it is to loose it from raft floating down a lazy river. If anyone needs a Koozie law it's any boat capable of speeds in excess of 10mph.