Arkansas Canoe Club Forums

Deuce wrote:

sig wrote:Wow this thread has devolved from useful info sharing to off-topic rambling.

Well duh. Would you expect anything else from us?

Yeah!!! Finally it is picking up speed and getting good. Let it go and lets ride it like the dragon it can be. I think The Parrot Head Paddler's question needs to be answered by somebody other than me.

Sig -- as if your post stayed on topic. Hypocrisy?

That's how these threads go -- they touch on a lot of issues that may only be tangentially related to paddling even thouggh they impact all paddlers. Plus it must of interest to our community -- tis' a lot of hits and views -- maybe just voyeurs but it could be someone who is in fact interested in this discourse.

Of course this was a "baited thread" from the git-go and thus Cowper's reservations for even getting it started. I guess the original aims underlying the post have already been met and the thread has EVOLVED into something quite different than its original intent.

P.S. What this thread really means: We Meed Rain!!

P.S.S. Going to creek and work on my offside roll. The gate be open if anyone wants to join/spot me. Til'

Lots of debate and no resolution in this thread. Can honestly say that I have not read every word of every post. That said, I bring the matter of our law enforcement agencies (city, county, state, federal, etc.) and their evolving into something that represents more of a military approach to how government in general approaches this matter.

Not going to put a bunch of links in here but check out Radley Balko's work on this topic.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/the-agitator/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And yes, it's the Huffington Post, but it's basically a news aggregator which is what would have passed for a newspaper 35 years ago.

Example: The state natural resource agency finds out that a fawn is being cared for at animal shelter which is planning for transfer of the creature to a rehab facility for returning to wild if possible. Stupid people thought that fawn was "abandoned" by her mama. Law says possession of wild creature requires state permit. Agency's response is:

A) Contact shelter and explain situation. Ask for explanation as to why they have possession of said animal.
B) Ignore informant's information.
C) Go big and use all their firepower to do what?
D) Kill animal in question.

"After receiving information about a possible violation of DNR policy, the warden drafted an affidavit for a search warrant, along with aerial photos showing the fawn going in and out of the barn.

Agents said they had to seize the deer because Wisconsin law forbids anyone to possess wildlife without a state-issued permit. Schulze explained that the next day, the deer was scheduled to go to a wildlife reserve in Illinois that allows rehabilitation of deer. He was shocked to see the agents come out carrying the fawn in a body bag.

When WISN 12 News questioned the DNR about the case, supervisor Jennifer Niemeyer said the agents were required by law to euthanize animals like the fawn because of the potential of spreading disease to humans. She said these were “difficult situations,” and the DNR empathized with people involved who were trying to do the right thing."

http://rockrivertimes.com/2013/08/02/de ... l-shelter/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Correct answer is C and D. And aerial photos for this? Sorry for thread hijack.

And no, I don't need a tinfoil hat. This is no conspiracy, but actual public policy. :myday"

Sorry for threadjack.

Wow Roger, that is some scary stuff. And I believe it, because I'm an old dude. I remember the days when we played "cat and mouse" with the police, riding around as teenagers. I think both sides enjoyed it; the guns never came out, and when they got tired, they'd turn on the blue lights, make sure we weren't drinking, and then tell us it was time for us boys to go on home now.

Everyone seems to agree this topic has run it's course. I know I've learned what I needed to know when I started it. So I'm going to summarize where I think it is, and then get this thread LOCKED! I don't want to feel responsible for where this might spin next, 'cause I'm sure it will be in a random direction. If someone had one last thought you just want to get out, please start a new thread!

My Summary:

When I started this thread, I honestly believed that more than 50% of AGF officers may be basing their enforcement activities on the outdated version of the law, because in the past I had heard of multiple instances of "no mesh bag" warnings given to those who DID have sturdy containers. So when I heard that happened again this past weekend, I thought maybe we still had a widespread problem with this. One would think that if more than 50% were "up to date", then the information would be shared with fellow officers in these "gatherings" of multiple officers, and we would see zero tickets except where tickets were deserved. Now I'm not so sure, maybe it is just one or two officers that don't know "sturdy containers" are still OK and you don't need a mesh bag if you don't have food or beverages.

In 5 pages of responses to my post, we've learned that many of us just don't like being stopped by men with guns on the river, others don't mind, but not a single additional case of a warning ticket or fine for "no mesh bag" has been identified in 2013. The thing that seems to be universal: We all seem to agree that something needs to be done at the put-ins to stop the glass from ever getting on the river. Bad people are catching on, they are sinking their bottles before they get to the "road blocks", which is the exact opposite of what we want to happen.

Here are some things that are going to happen:

There are going to be a lot of laminated copies of the law available in about two weeks. The first ones will be free. There may be a second printing, if Central Chapter wants to donate to the cause. We will hand them out at club meetings, and offer some to AGF for distribution to their officers.

Someone is going to meet with AGF and talk about "bottle sinking" and the need to stop glass from getting on the river by having a presence at the put ins, not just along the river. I'm hoping this will be someone who lives in Little Rock. If I can't find a volunteer, I'll do it, but it will have to be late September so we may not see changes until next summer.

There is going to be another clean-up on the Caddo. If I'm not out of state, I'm going to be there. Not because I can't clean rivers outside of a formalized clean up, but because that clean-up is being organized by a relatively newer AGF stream team leader and I want to support him and want him to have a positive opinion of our organization. And if I can achieve that, then it will be another opportunity to talk about AGF being present at the put-in, not just mid-river trip after it is too late to stop the glass.

I thank everyone who participated. Now, LET'S LOCK THIS THREAD!