concrete put in richland

[RomanLA]

I guess if it’s against the law, then that’s another matter.

And I thought I had heard that concrete or mortar was used to fix some undercut rock on the Nantahala River as well as Frog Rock on the Fractions section of the Arkansas River. It seems to be a common practice these days…..

I'm guessing there are probably legal issues with altering a wild & scenic river. I know that you need a permit even to cut a strainer out of a natural & scenic river in Louisiana.

I've heard that NOC filled in some foot entrapment spots at Nantahala Falls. I'm sure they've done everything possible to make it a safe run.

p.s. I found this guide for riverfront property owners. It's kind of a quick and dirty guide to wild and scenic rivers.
http://www.rivers.gov/publications/landowners.pdf

[canoe]

I apolagize for being so inflamatory in my previous posts, but I am thankful that my buddy who spent some time under Roadblock Rock was able to wash out, after a longer than you would want time period. I truely believe that it would have led to a recovery, if there wasn't the morter in place. For those who think the right slide is the answer, it doesn't work sometimes for open boats(let's not get into that contraversity) much less for rubber(rafts). I know that some think that rafts have no reason to be included in this discusion, but in fact, they are pushing the envelope for what can be done on Richland in non traditional boats. i would encourage anyone who hasn't done Richland in a raft, and have the skills, to do it at the right level(4 ft. on the internet gauge, although it has been done much lower). I believe this opens up the creek to those who wouldn't otherwise could not have the experience. For example, THE SHUTTLE GODDESS, PAM still hasn't made a trip down the creek, and I think this borders on a crime against all that is right in the world. dale

[JeffT]

Pave the world.

[Fish]

First off, Ben, way to go with the apology. Thought I was gonna have to come give you a talkin to about respectin your elders. :-)

However, with all due respect, I have to disagree with Dale as well. I've cut some deadfall out of rivers before, trees that will be dust-to-dust well within human timeframes. But moving rock and pouring concrete is very different to me. Trees are very temporary residents of the river, whereas rocks ARE the river. The ferocious battle between water and rock is THE reason whitewater paddlers are there.

I can't say I haven't had thoughts. Like, moving a rock to make a rapid better. Or dynamiting a cliff to make a rapid much bigger. Or even filling in a nasty sieve. But the fallacy of that to me is that the thinking goes against the nature of the river. A dam is fighting the river's nature - holding back what the river's work. Same with concrete in a sieve. We seek to make the river a static, unchanging, predictable thing with those types of manmade structure, and that's not what the river IS.

So philosophically I'm opposed to what was done here, and I also think it feeds the fallacy that we can (and should) make the river somehow "safe" by modifying it. If you don't give it respect and know what you're doing, ALL of Richland is not safe. Not even close. Many, many rocks could take your life if you let your guard down or go in unprepared. I think we let the river be wild in terms of where it moves the rocks, and we learn to respect that wildness.

So, I'll continue to be guilty of rearranging rocks in the riverbed, but I'll keep it on the scale of skipping them across the surface of a clear green Ozark pool.

- Fish

[panicman]

Well, if everyone is manning up and owning up to thier deeds lets hear from the rock mason or mason's that actually did the deed.

Crickets
Crickets
Crickets

[Roger]

Let's see. I heard of this over a month a ago and it's just now being discussed?! And, I do know who did it.

[okieboater]

Time to move on

We have pounded this thread to the max

Hopefully, I will get to run Roadblock next Richland season.

With out offering more fuel to the fire, if I do get to make the run, I will be a lot more relaxed if I do take the hero line at Roadblock.

[Chester]

Umm concrete...let's see...
ChainSaws R Us...
We have been called on many times, to clear out hazards and to make creeks safer to paddle. We only cut out the trees and brush, that our chief environmentalist believes will not cause bank erosion or other harm. And we have been praised worldwide (kinda) for our efforts and our end results.
Now if we can pack in chainsaws, why couldn't our illustrious members pack in concrete.
I have not been down Richland since RoadBlock was formed. But, I think if it's a death-trap, and you can fix or lessen the hazard, you do so.

[JTarver]

Fine, if it'll end this discussion....I'll take credit for it.
Here goes.

Oh lawdy, yall's done caught me. I puts da big ol mean concreticus in dat stream. Don't hit me no mo, I'lls be good.

Come on down, I'm wedging an old hot tub in between doors #1 and 2 next week. I plan on draping an extension cord across the creek and up to Dale's cabin, while using river water to circulate the vents. That reminds me, Dale, I'd like to borrow some power for awhile. I like to relax while I paddle. Don't worry, I'm gonna paint the hot tub grey and brown, so it'll blend in.

Whether it's right or wrong, isn't really for me to say. Whether I agree or not, doesn't really matter because it's already happened. Maybe it saved someone, maybe not.

Crap, I lost my whole point.

I was actually gonna jokingly berate Jeremy for the "look at us getting along like big kids" speech, but I didn't get to it in time. Now it would just look like I was bein an A$$. I hope you all come to sort some of agree to disagree type thing on this. But if not, you certainly have that right as well. I wish for water to liquify the masses. Peace.

Joe

[Schildwache]

So it seems to come down to a difference of opinion on whether it is more ethical to alter the structure of rock features versus removing downed trees. It seems to me that clearing trees and brush is often done not so much to make paddling safer as much as to make paddling possible. I'll have to go with Fish on this one. My dream, on my bucket list, likely to be the bucket, would be to run O Be Joyful Creek. Not Likely. Now, if we put some slides in at the waterfalls, maybe.

[BMuu]

I couldn't agree with you more fish.

Not to mention it makes kayakers look bad in the eyes of the public. Hikers and visters of richland don't want to come across cement any more than they do an old tire.

[canoe]

I agree also .. I want to keep Richland wild but, ya'll have to understand we did not do that concrete thing we understand why someone chose to do that but, it saved Dales best friend no question but it is as it is .. So lets keep up the great work and a little less not sure of the word...lets keep our friends and in my word our family of paddlers .. if we don't stick together then it would be bad.. like I said in Bens post lets have peace enjoy our Richland Creek.. Thanks to all Pam

[BMuu]

I should say, no matter anyone elses views on here about any issue we are still like a family and I look forward to paddling with you.

[A Savage spanke]

I usually keep comments like this for people I know really well, but

I wasn't going to weigh in on this topic until now. This is why I love the ACC. We can disagree and even get a bit fired up...but at the end of the day we're all paddlers who enjoy protecting and paddling our natural and sometimes not so natural rivers and creeks of Arkansas.

Gay.

[Roger]

As for this statement:

"Hikers and visters of richland don't want to come across cement any more than they do an old tire."

Chances are absolutely zero hikers and "visitors" of Richland will see this bit of "earth." I can only imagine the message board for hikers with a thread discussing the impropriety of boaters messing with the middle of a creek and why they should hike up there and look at the damage! Not.

That "cement" job keeping the rock in place forever? Yeah, bring me the proof.

Anybody want to take out those two bridges located at the put-in (close to the Barton's) and the take-out at the campground since that is concrete in the stream bed?

Worried about what the FS has to say? Who's going to tell them

Sorry, Dave, just had to get it out!