City funding for a water park

[Half Ton]

lame

[Half Ton]

why not modify all streams ?

[Fish]

Heath's right about Rockport and Mountain Fork - they're the best bet for dependable summer flows without pumping in this area I think. (The Gentry "creek" is pumped, just not by kayakers.) The 4 hour drive from NWA does tend to dampen enthusiasm of folks in that area a bit though.

Heath, I'd love to pump 200 to 400 cfs up about 30 feet and let 'er rip too. But that takes serious pump hardware and a lot of power. Pumps that can handle big flow and relatively high head are not common or cheap - I've priced them at about $250K and up. And you'd likely need more than one of those. And you need to be on commercial power. And all of that isn't cheap. You're looking at a cost in the millions of dollars, which makes Rockport look cheap by comparison. A course like Charlotte just has too much in operating expenses. It'll eat you alive unless you can convince bunches of people to come and raft/tube it - you'll never make enough off kayakers.

- Fish

[Fish]

.

[Heath]

Fish I agree with you 100% that it would take lots of dough for a pumped system. I just think that the desighn side of a lot of the courses that I have seen could be set up a little better, seems to me that you could build one that would offer an area for a creekin clinic as well as a play and slalom course. take the esses on the tot for example if levels are over 5ft the river left side is great slalom and a bigger water feel. the right is a creek line.

what about the Branson area, seems like with table rock generating as well as some of the other lake in the area, that something could easily be done up there.

also I think we should modify every stream and then post how lame it is to post about how lame it is

[Half Ton]

no, really. unless it is built seperate from a stream or river it messes the stream or river up for a lot of other stuff besides boating.

what is the most lame is that you still have my lame utensil that I forgot to get from halloween at richland - which was not lame at all.

[ebell]

obviously we can't modify ball streams because it would be too expensive.

Instead we must focus our energy of modifying to fewest to get the most enjoyment.

Although in truth we might want to modify them all.

eric

[Fish]

What's lame is lame posters posting lame posts about other posts being lame. So this post is definitely lame.

- Fish

[knu2xs]

If you're really serious about this, you should get in touch with the people at Whitewater Courses and Parks. (http://whitewatercoursesandparks.com/about/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) In particular, Risa Shimoda is great at figuring out how to promote and build a case for projects and initiatives. Having worked with her while she was the Executive Director at AW, I can attest to her amazing work ethic and talent.

[FarPastGone]

Half Ton you are right that it is lame to talk about altering the streambeds of creeks in Fayetteville that are so contaminated by non-point pollution that the life has already been choked out of them. You're right that it would be lame to alter one of these streams for recreational purposes probably spurring an attention to the poor water quality of these streams and maybe ignite some interest to clean up the natural stream beds and watersheds.

Environmental awarness spurred by recreational interest is lame.

-Matt

[Ben Rodda]

I just read back through the tread on surfing SWEPCO in Gentry and think that the potential of that location seems to be epic. After all the discussions about locations in Fayetteville that have suitable flow and gradient Gentry stands out. While I am sure that City funding is out of the question I wonder if we can find some other way to get it done.

Once the Gentry project is done then maybe interest in other more asthetic locations could be considered.

[Half Ton]

Life has not been choked out of the streams in fayetteville - yet.

There are still stonefly, mayfly, caddis fly, and dragon fly larvae kicking in in many of the streams......all of these are indicators of decent water quality.

While there are only a few smallmouth bass - there still are some.

a trail system got put in right next to the streams in many cases and has caused accelerated streambank erosion where there was none before. Extra concrete or rip rap to fix the problem than never would have been an issue has further deteriorated water quality, wildlife habitat, and aesthetic value.

Loving the resource to death is not lame?

beyond increasing the negative impacts to the stream itself - it has been an increased burden to the tax payer, the residents who now are losing stream bank property because of the riparian vegegation removal and other "hard structure" stream modifications.

Why not just turn these creeks into concrete lined ditches or modified streams with play waves? And then do it to many other streams around the state.

If its a choice between loving something to death, or just being ignorant that the resource is there - I would choose ignorance at this point based upon what I have seen. I would rather more people did not know it was there because - just like many other instances - there are a great many more users of a resource than there are care takers.

I still do not understand how so many people can float a river, walk a trail, swim in a river, and etc....... and hardly ever take care of it.

Underuse ain't so bad. besides there is a lot of non-point pollution in the streams in fayetteville, namely fecal coliform from man's best friend that is simply not healthy. In fact, there is so much doggy poo in the streams in fayetteville that they have been listed as impaired on the states 303d list for the loss of a "primary contact" designated use.

Make play waves on a creek you have to dodge dog poo. sounds yummy. just don't ever swallow the water when you are out there, you could end up with a case of worms you never intended to get.

If it does not need to be modified, it shouldn't.

[bennettm]

would the war eagle river just below the mill be a viable place? Seems like there might be enough gradient there and enough flow for a small feature most of the year. The 2 worst prolbems with this spot that I could see are flooding and keeping people off the mill's damm.

[jermdog]

Dog poop doesn't scare me. I'm sure the levels of dog doo on an average flow day in Fayetteville pales in comparison to the amount of fecal coliforms in the creeks when they are brown(brown is good btw). The levels of E Coli are the highest during floods as well, but that never slows anyone down when the creeks are up. Fear mongering isn't a good strategy.

[jermdog]

And for the record, I do get what you're saying Half Ton, but you have to look at it from several angles. The only reason I'm concerned with stream quality is that when I was a kid, I hung out on the Buffalo then Crooked Creek. If you want disparity, the difference between those in the 80's was huge, not to mention the difference between what the Buff looked like then compared to now.
Ramble done, but the more people we can get to the creeks and actually in them, the more people there will be to take care of the creeks. Imagine if there was a swimming hole on Skull Creek. How much more care do you think it would receive if peoples kids were in there all summer long?