Snake Season: what would you do?

[DeBo]

Thanks Butch and Karla, for the kind words. I'm sorry if I seem judgemental; I try very hard not to be, but I guess I still have something to work on.

The puppy story was just a thought experiment to get people to see things from another perspective. Some things, like mad dogs are dangerous and I am not against rational self defense. Let's just make sure it really is rational and lets keep the doors of communication open so we can figure out what rational is.

[Randy Dodson]

Oh well, I'm gonna go ahead and tell the story of how I came to appreciate snakes and leave them alone.

When my son, Craig was 4 years old, we lived in the country. One day I saw a huge black snake crossing our gravel drive about 40 yards from the house. From that distance I couldn't tell what kind of snake it was but I didn't care. I grabbed a shovel and took off to dispatch the snake which I thought might be a Cottonmouth. Craig started crying and screaming at me not to kill the snake. He kept saying "It's a Rat Snake, It's a Rat Snake". He then took off running for the house as fast as his little legs would go.

He then came busting out of the house and caught up to me just as I was getting close to the snake. Opening up his Audubon Reptile Pocket Guide, he showed me that I was about to kill a non poisonous snake.

His fascination for snakes eventually rubbed off on me and today, I don't think I would kill any snake. Though I would find a new county for poisonous ones to live in.

I've also come a long way in my ability to ID a snake and realize that many, many snakes I used to see on the Upper Buffalo were Banded Water Snakes instead of the Copperheads I used to think they were.

[Clif]

Been lurkin this thread. I, too, was raised in the asnakequickgetthehoe! mentality. Also learned many tricks to get back to the ones that got away. Later in life began to realize as has been said here.... they would not be around without something to eat.. plenty of snakes? you got plenty of rats, toads, rabbits whatever.

I live in the woods now. As we pushed back the "ecosystem" the snakes diminished. Took a while for me to learn the hognose guys, who take care of lots of toads. They take a second look like the watersnakes mentioned.

I have relocated many snakes.. but have to wonder, with my unique perspective, how I would react to the next copperhead in my yard. It was totally my fault.

A friend got pretty angry as I had to actually push, and it never once struck, a fair size rattler to get it to "run" away while they went to get the gun. No desire to see it killed. Something I have been trying to teach my guys. Which brings me to this point. Is this not true for much of life, what has come out in these messages? We are scared of what we do not know. Educating ourselves is the key to much, be it understanding and getting along in nature or existing with different cultures or political views. Maybe even theology. Once it was written to love your enemies. But it is so much easier to run get the shovel.

[Randy Dodson]

Clif, was it a Timber Rattler? Seems like they're awfully slow to strike, almost docile.

while I appreciate snakes, I'm still not what you'd call a snake lover. But Timber Rattlers are just downright purty. They fascinate me more than all the others combined.

[Jody]

Randy I loved your story. How precious!

[JTarver]

Great story Cowper. You know, I agree with Debo wholeheartedly on snakes and other reptiles, etc. They are a constant source of entertainment and awe for me, and I thoroughly enjoy encounters with them. I relocate several snakes a year, esp. at UALR...the harmless get to reside here, but I always move the hot snakes far away. I have handled snakes as long as I can remember, and will continue to do so, and hopefully eradicate some irrational fears along the way.
Every year at Canoe school, I always make it a point to go over a quick biology lesson about snakes with my students. Mainly how to tell the difference between hot and not snakes.
Cowper pointed out some of them:
Round pupils ( and yes, you will usually be close enough to be able to see their pupils, believe it or not )
rounded head as opposed to triangular
absense or presence of rattles
being able to notice the "pits" on hot snakes,
and usually how to distinguish band patterns ( mainly between copperheads and banded watersnakes ).
The more you find out about snakes, the harder it is to not be fascinated by them.
Besides, if you're gonna be on the river, you need to know the difference in water snakes and cottonmouths/copperheads
esp. the juveniles.

Joe

[Clif]

Clif, was it a Timber Rattler? Seems like they're awfully slow to strike, almost docile.

while I appreciate snakes, I'm still not what you'd call a snake lover. But Timber Rattlers are just downright purty. They fascinate me more than all the others combined.

Yes. Dogs had it rattling. But it calmed pretty quick after they were gone.

First one I saw wild was 7 foot or longer stretched across the hiway. As I tell many about watching it.. also admiring the colors and how beautiful it was... crawl to safety while I was blocking the road from any other vehicles, the main response I get is, "you didn't run over it?!?!?" I had no idea they got so huge. This one was as big as my leg.

Hey Deb, after reading about their territorial habits, using same hunting areas and dens, how is that disrupted by relocating them? Are they at risk for survival after they are in a new area? I guess mo better chances than the more common alternative.

[suckhole]

Awe, Debo, now I feel bad. Just to be straight, the LAST thing I wanna do is offend you-so I'm sorry. I keep myself way from direct confrontations, so I have avoided conflict for awhile. The hilarity of the exact moment the snake is seen and the chaos that occurs is what tickles me, even when they get away. I still laugh at the first time we thought we had incoming during desert storm, which turn out to be a howitzer firing off. But people in their draws diving under trucks was friggin' hilarious. I had pet deer and got all the comments that come along with that, especially when he died in my arms and the tough guys thought it was funny. And yet still I hunt deer(my reasons are irrelevant). So I guess I took the long way home to say this. On my part, please consider the dumb-A$$ source.

[RomanLA]

Besides, if you're gonna be on the river, you need to know the difference in water snakes and cottonmouths/copperheads
esp. the juveniles.

A cottonmouth's body floats and they hold their heads out of the water. I did a quick search and found this site with some nice pictures.
http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/ar ... casin.html

[DeBo]

I am really enjoying all the stories. Randy, I always knew Craig was a very special kid and an old soul. That story is a great example of the parent learning from the child. Cliff thanks for saving the snake and what you said was great. It is such a trajedy when someone kills a Timber, they are so beautiful and so mild mannered.

Joe, just keep teaching.

The hilarity of the exact moment the snake is seen and the chaos that occurs is what tickles me

Thanks for what you said and I must confess I also find it terribly amusing to see grown men act like crazy scared monkeys.

[suckhole]

Think that's funny you should see it when we think it's bombs. Well it's funny now. I'm sure my attitude would be different if it really was incoming. In regard to my first post, I know I'd let go down both legs 'cause they tell me history repeats itself. So we were floating Remmel-Rockport and some folks were in a blow up coleman boat. A -I think moccosin was crossing the river and stopped to watch as they do. The y had a little girl asleep in the boat. The dad got scared and said"it's comin in-kill it". I'm yelling no don't and trying to get to the boat. The mom swung which brought the snake directly at them. It tried to get in the boat but the sides were too tall. It floated by the little girls head, not 6 inches away as she slept. I didn't know what I was gonna do as i was on hellbenders LOONG rec boat, but I was trying to keep it off the girl. The comotion and tall sides discouraged it, and it went on back to whence it came. I'll never forget that spear-shaped head so close to the baby. Dad knows now-don't swing. Sidenote-I let go down both legs then too

[Karla]

Gary took a picture while on the Cadron of a snake, fairly large where he was sitting down to eat. Couldn't see the head. Will post the pic later when back home. He was curled up asleep near a log.

Karla

[rynorris]

"Puppy stories" are the #1 reason people knee jerk and dig in their heels and close up their mind. They are typically only effective for prosecuting attorneys trying to scare jurors into sending someone to the pen for the forseeable future.

Rationality is relative and no objective standard exists.

[Fish]

People arbitrarily kill things that are less like them with much more ease. Fly. Whap! Dead. Fish? Hook. Dead. Snake? Smack! Dead. Lawyer? Boom! Dead.

Dog? They gots cute little people eyes and fur. Have to have a very, very good reason for killing a dog, right?

That's just the way the world works. To the cutest and most familiar go the spoils.

I'm not for killing anything for reasons other than self-defense or food. Snakes included. I don't think snakes are all that appetizing, and I figure I'm on their turf when I'm hiking or boating, so I'm not going to kill any of them unless they are actively biting me. Of course, if they're in my home without being invited, I might have to invoke the self-defense clause... I do that in my personal "War On Wasps" (WOW), many of which have invaded my personal space this spring. Whap! Spray! OUCH! #*&!, missed one!

- Fish

[Eztouche]

2 true Arkansas Snake Stories.
Years ago we were homesteading at Maumelle (back when deer came up to your fence) I put my hand under a board in the back yard and felt something akin to a red wasp sting. 30 minutes later my hand was swollen to the point I could no longer see my knuckles and I had a look under that board. Sadly, I did dispatch the resident copperhead. An hour or 2 later I made it to Baptist where the plastic surgeon on call drained the bite site, kept me overnight, and sent me home.

On a paddling trip methinks to the Ouachita (I think) with the late great Gordon Bartelt and company we were in the campsite and heard a shriek from the local latrine.. followed by a fast moving female exiting. Close inspection revealed a large black snake up in the rafters.
Any of you men sharing facilities with a lady who takes her time, as do they all, consider keeping a black snake as a pet and introducing it to the "powder room" when urgency demands this strategy.