Arkansas Canoe Club Forums

BHK Okie wrote:I've had 9 surgeries 100's of Dr visits . I'm blind in my left eye & have a very damaged right eye because of a Dr . How many people think we need to ban Dr.s ? .. .....me neither ! I'm sure Dr. Yaney will agree on this one even if it hurts . I'm not the only one that has been hurt by him - I know for a FACT , but I know for a fact he has helped people also . I didn't try to ban all Dr.'s & I didn't try to ban or sue him . I would like everyone to know the facts & make their own choice but I don't rule the world & neither do you ! PLEASE take a step back & look @ the big picture . Solve the worlds problems then post & share with us ! Nothing in this world is perfect . If you have a better answer please share it with me . Maybe I'm in a position to make it work ? ........ Or continue to whine with no answer ??????

What does all this have to do with the original post regarding the fracking process?

Evidence now says that the shale formations produce high volumes and then fall off rather quickly. Check the Bakken Field. Just like a river after rain. Only this is a one-time deal. At what cost? Lots of fresh water and surface damage. Yeah, there are exceptions as in any case.

As for energy independence, we're the world's leading exporter of petroluem products. And then we import to meet our needs? What's the answer to our energy problems? Build the Keystone Pipeline to pipe tar oil from Canada to the Gulf Coast to be processed and shipped overseas? Build coal-burning plants in SE Arkansas to send power to Texas?

Nationalize the energy industry or regulate it more since it is such a critical part of our nation's existence?
Any arguments with that? You know get things coordinated so that we are more efficient with our resources. Or is excessive profit our goal?

I agree with you about shipping our energy overseas . That makes absolutely no sense at all to me . I cannot understand that , but as you said , this post is about whether or not fracking pollutes ground water .

Roger wrote: Nationalize the energy industry or regulate it more since it is such a critical part of our nation's existence.
Any arguments with that?


Well, if it's a national security problem then we should not let private business control it.

commie

are we going to regulate supply or demand?

prophet wrote:

Roger wrote: Nationalize the energy industry or regulate it more since it is such a critical part of our nation's existence.
Any arguments with that?


Well, if it's a national security problem then we should not let private business control it.

commie

are we going to regulate supply or demand?

We regulated sugar, nylon, and gasoline back during the big wars, did we not? The thing is that the polticians keep talking about energy being a national security concern (look at our involvement in the Middle East). If it really is then should we not address those concerns with a national comprehensive policy that addresses usage as well as supply?

I know, I know, the conservative wingers will say "drill, baby, drill," because capitalism and free markets cure all ills. And we all know that Big Oil is really concerned about being good citizens and stewards of the environment. Right? (sarcasm emoticon)

As for being a commie, prophet, all I can say is "Sticks and stones..........."

And I could care less about PWC having enough fuel to operate. And our fresh H2O supply is a finite source.

dont deny it roger. i know you associate closely with the piney boys with their solar power and them just giving it away free to your comrades on the grid.

prophet wrote:dont deny it roger. i know you associate closely with the piney boys with their solar power and them just giving it away free to your comrades on the grid.

Guilty as charged.

I used to think that most "environmentalist" were a bunch of tree hunging fruit cakes . . . until they put a three well frac pad on my neighbors property about 400 yards from my home. They don't make good neighbors. I can no longer sit out on my deck and enjoy the rural lifestyle I've enjoyed the previous 15 years I lived here. I can no longer enjoy spring evenings with the windows up in my home. The noise, the lights, the smells, they're just not tolerable when the wind is wrong.

I now donate to local environmentalist causes.

Here are a few highlights from a good link for this discussion. According to ADEQ records, 10% of RANDOMLY INSPECTED wells were cited for unauthorized discharges into the waters of the state between 2006-2010. Less than 1/6th of all wells were actually inspected over this time frame. (538/ 3,427). 54% of inspected wells were cited for discharge or other major violations. There's a lot more info in the report with the conclusion being that they aren't running the tightest ship in the world. As noted earlier, it may not have gotten into the groundwater yet. It may not get there at all, but when dealing with the sludge they use, the O&G's have to do a better job of keeping it contained than their record shows.

http://arpanel.org/policy/reports/natur ... tions/view" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

James

I've been so incensed over the ridiculousness of the anti-fracking bunch that I was actually researching how to go about doing what would have amounted to making this film myself. Then about two weeks ago I found out that I didn't have to. :)

http://fracknation.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I caught it on AXSTV about a week ago and all I can say is thank God the truth is starting to get out. I began surveying and mapping for the gas industry as soon as I got out of college in 2007, and today map for the seismic testers. One of my best friends is a geologist who works for SWN. I was actually at the point of returning to school for my law degree to help the little guy and stop the supposed destruction ot the 'Natural State' when I was straight up schooled by a couple of good men that I trust implicitly. Believe me, I don't care how bad I need the work, and I know they feel the same; if the land was truly in danger, I swear I would be the first to stand in defense. Instead, I am absolutely convinced that what they are doing is not hurting the land in anyway but the most short-term and insignificant, as long as it is done properly. And that is the damage done clearing SMALL well pads and creating new lease roads. I took a couple trips to western AR and SW AR to see older gas wells that have been around long enough to show long-term effects. There really isn't an energy source with a smaller long-term footprint! Once the grass grows back, a gas well is a remarkably low-profile operation that most barely notice. When you combine that with 50% of the emissions of coal and significantly reduced emissions compared to gasoline and diesel, as well as the fact that thanks to fracking and directional drilling, we are officially the saudis of natural gas! We have well over 100 years of supply and are discovering new deposits almost monthly.

You see, for a very long time, these deposits weren't considered recoverable, and therefore weren't listed in any national inventories, weren't sought out, weren't pursued. Then fracking and directional drilling came along, were modified according to new knowledge and research, and changed the world for America.

Obama and the Left oppose it, and particularly the Keystone XL Pipeline, not because it ruins the land and pollutes our wells and our air. They say its because disadvantaged neighborhoods in Houston would be adversly affected by more supply coming into refineries. They're really afraid more money will wind up in Republican coffers because energy usually supports the Right. Whatever.If you take the time to watch FrackNation, I GUARANTEE you will come away with three things firmly in mind:

1. The guys who made this film are very obviously not extremists or making propaganda, this is an honest documentary.
2. Its painfully obvious who the liars and propaganda makers are.
3. We have been blessed beyond all comprehension by fracking and directional drilling advances, as well as the discovery of VAST resources that have the capacity to free us from our de facto slavery to the middle east.

PS Roger, its been awhile, but I remember you as a really smart, really good guy. So please don't take this as inflammatory. But I really think that at this point we must be against nationalizing ANYTHING else, don't you think? The Federal Govt. has proven time and time again they can't be trusted to manage jack $hi*.

Not real sure where you're getting the impression that our President opposes natural gas/ fracking. The Keystone pipeline is a different deal.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-0 ... -jobs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://news.yahoo.com/epa-changed-cours ... w--;_ylv=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, nobody makes a documentary that doesn't serve a purpose. The truth is somewhere in the middle of those two films.

He doesn't do it outright. He doesn't have to, his EPA takes care of that for him.

He's been president for 4 years so I really can't remember where I FIRST got that idea either !

I would highly suggest watching them both, GasLand first, and then see what you think. Combine that with my firsthand knowledge and reasonably trustworthy secondhand knowledge, and I need no further convincing. And believe me, if I thought for a minute it was as bad as any of the rumors, I would be opposed. My livelyhood doesn't depend on it, just one contract LOL

His EPA that excludes fracking waste from the vast majority of CWA and CAA regulations? Really? The EPA is far less stringent in regards to O&G industry pollutants than they are in comparison to other sectors. Maybe the reason they O&G's are targeted is because, I don't know, they have a strong history of pollution and not because the EPA has it out for them. The fact that the CWA specifically excludes so many common fracking wastes would tend to show that the O&G's are playing a game that's pretty favorable to them. I'm not saying that fracking is the root of all evil or that it needs to be shut down completely, but your talking about an industry that has (in Arkansas) practically no oversight and an incredibly weak record of self-reporting the problems they do cause. They are polluters and there needs to be more of a presence holding them accountable. The facts are most wells do not even get inspected by the ADEQ (or EPA) on a yearly basis and in cases where problems are noted the ADEQ often doesn't have the man power to check back to see that they were fixed. Somehow though the government has it out for poor Chesapeake, or SEECO.