new play spot ? maybe!

[painterbob]

so what? no support .. no other input .no help. no other thoughts!

[Eric Esche]

Bob - I got lots of thoughts and a few ideas about where and how and maybe how to sell it. Talk to me some time. I used to be a Trout Unlimited member for 10 years of a chapter that was named #1 for the Southeastern US so I might know how a few of them think and what might fly with them.

Eric Esche

[Ben Rodda]

I am wondering if we might be able to get some of the folks that were involved in the Malvern project to help us out with some ideas on how we might develop a plan.

Also I am wondering if we might have some kind of open house at the potential site(s) you have in mind Bob?

Perhaps on a Saturday or a Sunday to check things out a bit.

Ben

[cpresoz]

I'll come and help in whatever way I can. I doubt bringing in any general contractor contacts will work since it's Corps of Engineer property. Sounds like the administrative portion, as at Malvern, is going to be the major work, after making good connections with Trout Unlimited.

[okieboater]

Well guys for what it is worth here is some comments based on actual work I have done for getting river features for boaters.

For the record I am a former Trout Unlimited member and for many years did a lot of trout fishing. Don't do much trout fishing now, but for many years I was an avid Trout fisher person.

I was one of the original start up people working for access to the so called "outlaw run" below the dam on the mountain fork river in OK. It is a short run, but goes all summer and has a surprising number of fun play spots.

got the CofE interested and a good sized number of ACC members showed up at the local CofE office one sat for a discussion. I think the discussions went pretty well. Then the local chapter of TU got wind of the deal and like turning off a light switch CofE said no way as kayaking would interfere with the fisher folk. Not saying all TU chapters feel the same way, just saying if you guys have a good relationship with the area TU chapter, please do all you can to keep that relationship well. TU has a lot of stroke with the Corps.

Secondly, I have (along with others here in Tulsa) worked for decades with the various governmental agencies in control of the area of the Arkansas River at 31st and Riverside. Local CofE individuals have attended a lot of meetings but to do anything constructing features in a river bed requires a bunch of paperwork. CofE has a mountain of paperwork and environmental studies that must be complete before they do anything in a river. It is not like it used to be on CofE projects. The paperwork is difficult to get done unless you have a professional engineering type person doing the paper work. Our permitting process took a giant step forward when our local power company PSO, assigned one of their environmental engineers to do the work required for permits.

Here in Tulsa we had some individuals who own their own did some changes in rocks etc in the river and one who showed up with a front end loader and cleared out a trail down to the river. Big time problem with the local levee manager and it took years to get him to back off from demanding a ton of money in fines even tho PSO used their folks to restore the changes and in fact made it better with grass instead of weeds etc.

Bottom line is folks, I am excited to hear of the progress you all are making. At the same time, my experience getting a river feature constructed and open to the public has been long and required paperwork and approvals most would have given up on.

Bottom line. Keep the relationships in good shape, find out the rules on getting paperwork done and follow to the letter. And, understand it takes a lot of time and patience to get the feature constructed and open to the public.

Best of wishes and stay with it, just realize it will take a lot more time and effort on paperwork than you ever thought. And, for what it is worth, getting boaters to agree on construction of a river play feature is one of the more difficult leadership tasks I ever undertook in my entire working career.

[Ben Rodda]

The good news is that the C of E has already allowed TU to complete a construction project in this location. It would seem to me that if we use the same materials then 2/3s of the battle is over. The next step in my mind if to see if we can find an alternative location that would not interfere with what TU has already done. I am planning on doing some scouting and such on Friday.

Ben

[roylancaster]

Being involved with applied River Morphology and enginerees on board I would like to look into this more. I think you can increase the fishery and have a great set of hydrolics at the same time but the structure must be done properly to prevent adverse efects both up and down stream. you cant just throw some rocks in and exept the thalweg,deposition,sediment transport capacity ect. Plus you have many variables for the fish habitat that have all be met. I am sure it can be done and both parties will benifit..

[Ben Rodda]

I went and checked out the spot yesterday. I have to say that in my opinion we would have to move a ton of rock to see much happen. There really is no gradient and the river bed is very wide at this point. I should have taken pictures maybe I will go back this week and take some shots.

Honestly I think we need to consider a new location on the river all together. Perhaps closer to the dam.

Once again the really exciting thing is that the C of E has approved a recreational project in this area. We also have a list of acceptable materials and construction procedures to follow as well. SO lets see if we can work with this.

[Wavesport4]

It sounds as if we need a summit for this to develop a plan, an inventory of resources as well as establishing an estimated cost to organize fund raising. It seems this project has quite a bit of support from other organizations. I received an email from Marc Thompson who is a Trout Unlimited board member who has helped propose this idea and received confirmation from an Arkansas Game & Fish Comission biologist that this would be beneficial for the trout habitat! It's time to get the ball rolling!

[painterbob]

... that's good news!

[Wavesport4]

Also the biologist mentioned that is creating the plans for TU's project will be at their next meeting on December 6th. This would be a great opportunity to find out what process needs to be taken. For more information on the meeting just pm me!

[painterbob]

http://www.noc.com/live.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; working it!