Cold Weather Gear

[bmartin]

Having a dry suit will expand your paddling days a lot and with the intermittent water flows around here, having the drysuit will mean more paddling, especially if you have a full time job and really only have 2 days in a week to paddle. If you do not work, then you can probably wait for the temp to warm to near 60 when the water is still moving, but if you are a weekend paddler you either go whatever the temp is, or you don't. The wet warm approach with a wetsuit, never feels 'warm' to me, rather, I feel cold if I get wet, but just not quite hypothermic at 50 degrees. The difference in comfort between a wetsuit and drysuit are huge, at least for me.

I bought a Palm drysuit for around $400 and it boast being made of smoe breathable fabric, but Gortex it is not, but I have never been uncomfortable in it when wearing wicking under gear under a variety of temps from the 30s to low 60s. I have found a cheap dry suit to be much more comfortable than a wetsuit and would go that route if you can't afford the $1000 dry suit. If you want to paddle, I would spend more on warmth than on other paddling gear, because being cold is no fun, at least for someone on the lean side without a very good natural furnace.

[Eric Esche]

And if the money for a new dry suit just isn't there, I wouldn't give up on finding a used Gore-tex dry suit or another type of breathable suit just because you can't afford a new one with all the wizbangs. There are used dry suits out there for half (or less) than new that often have years of fully servicable life left in them. Just remember to figure in cost of new seals sooner than later when bidding on them and buy a size large enough for you to layer underneath it. Almost all dry suits are sized this way for extra layers, but if in doubt, go with the next size larger. Study each manufacturer's sizing charts to see what fits you. Mine looks large enough to fit Ryan Center on a hanger (it wouldn't as he is way taller than I am), but it is just right on me. Having tried out 3 breathable fabrics now, I'm still sold on Kokatat Gore-tex as being the best for paddleing.

Admittedly, I had to watch eBay every day for 6+ months and was surfing many other internet sites, but I found an XL off brand Gore-tex suit (made by Kokatat for a jet ski manufacturer Tigershark under their own brand name of Tigerwear) with relief zipper but no socks and a torn neck seal but other wise great shape for $71 including shipping. And it definately has a unique color scheme. Next year I will replace the neck seal and add goretex socks for $175 including shipping per a quote I got from a repair place out west, but I feel I am way ahead by having it as is this year for open boating. I was comfortable all day on our Buffalo trip with wind chills in the 20's and totally dry when I got out. Gore-tex boot socks over my polypropylene and polyester fleece socks kept my feet warm and dry, even with launching and wading in a few times as the ankle seals did seal to the gore-tex boot sock luckily for me. Not saying that would work for everyone, but it might work if you have the gore-tex sock to use it with like I did. I'll still replace the ankle seals with sewn and glued in gore-tex socks, but for now, the ankle seals worked well enough with gore-tex boot socks to keep me happy and comfortable. History making event for me as my feet have always been cold. Buying a pair of new NRS ATB's in size 13 (versus my normal 10.5's off of eBay didn't hurt either as they have enough room for me to layer my feet with out compressing the insulation layers too much. Late spring to early summer or just after Christmas seems to be the best times to find used drysuits on eBay, but there always seem to be a few each month as folks up grade, or sadly drop out of paddleing, or get divorced.

I bought my one piece dry suit after having bought a breathable NRS Revolution dry top on sale at Lewis & Clark and a pair of breathable Moonstone? dry pants last year from OOO at TEFKACS. They kept me dry and relatively warm through a few rolls that I did last winter and spring, but I wasn't confident they would stay dry if I ever swam or jumped in to rescue someone or their gear. I'm keeping that set as my emergency gear for when my suit is off getting repaired and as a loaner set. Spent $350 for new this way with gore-tex boot socks by shopping around, if you want a comparison price to work with. In hind sight, I would have been way better off to get a usable used suit for $400-500 and had it a year longer, but the money was not there for more toys at the time, so that was why and how I got my gear.

Eric

[CSH]

Hey all,

so I am finally getting around to thinking about purchasing some cold weather gear. Based on your responses, which I do appreciate, and some additional research, I think I am going to start with a farmer john wet suit, I haven't decided on 2.5mm or 3mm, any input is appreciated, and a dry top, with a couple of layers of base under the top. I will also add gloves, socks and booties and something for the head. Although the dry suit really seems like the way to go, I am not sure if I am ready to shell out that kind of cash at the moment. I would like some feedback on this if you have the time. Thanks again.

Chris

[Jim Krueger]

Chris,

I can only offer how much I have enjoyed my BARE brand 3mm Farmer John. I wouldn't want anything thinner than 3mm personally. The two BARE suits I've had have been well constructed and well fitting, and combined with a good dry top and fleece layers has served me pretty well.

Jim Moose

[Karla]

Chris,
I am thinking about doing the same thing so I can get out on the nice days on the river and not end up too cold or hypothermic with some proper gear. I too can't afford the drysuit. Am hoping to borrow a drytop to try out first before I buy one. Not sure I can handle the tightness around the neck or not.

Karla

[Mike_P]

Pardon me if I missed this point, but what is the down side to neoprene under a dry top...such as wearing a farmer john wetsuit under a dry top? I was thinking of this over a full dry suit or wetsuit pants with a dry top (because of the separation of top & lower layers allows water in).

[Cowper]

what is the down side to neoprene under a dry top...such as wearing a farmer john wetsuit under a dry top?

No major downside to that combination; but it gives up some breathability and some flexibility. If you have a Farmer john wetsuit, then your chest area is not going to be able to "breathe" even if you have a breathable dry top, because you're covering it with the non-breathable wetsuit. How much difference does that make? Probably not a huge one, if you consider that by the time you get your sprayskirt on (non-breathable) and PFD (non-breathable), there isn't really that much exposed "breathing" area anyway. Personally, if I had to rebuild my gear tomorrow, my choices would probably go something like this (in decreasing order of preference):

1) Full Drysuit (goretex)
2) Full drysuit (breathable but not gore-tex)
3) Dry top (breathable), with bibs or high-top pants for bottom half (retains flexibility almost equal to drysuits, also very versatile since you can wear the top only in moderate weather)
4) Dry top, with farmer john wetsuit bottoms (versatile, but gives up some flexibility with the farmer john bottom - less of an issue for open boaters)
5) Dry top, with neoprene pants (what you said - cold spot when it separates from top as you move around)

On the other hand, there are two big advantages to farmer john bottoms we rarely talk about:
1) Padding - if you take a swim, that neoprene offers some protection from rocks and such
2) If torn, you haven't "lost" all your protection. The wetsuit is still a wetsuit. A torn drysuit leaves you very vunerable to the elements.

[Mike_P]

Thanks, I agree with the added protection & buoyancy of the neoprene especially protecting your butt & legs. I've had a couple of torn neoprene bottoms from rocks or whatever & it's protected my legs often (even when always trying to keep the feet up when swimming). Plus it offers a little padding in your boat.

When folks say "bibs" on this thread are you referring to neoprene or dry wear?

Great thread.

[Cowper]

It's basically the "drywear" version of the Farmer John

http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=twb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It doesn't show well in the photos, but there is a flap that rolls together with your drytop, creating something almost as dry as a full dry suit.

[BooF4FooD]

ok, i know these questions are prolly getting old to the vets... im curious.. i just got the the ir union suit... and am going to be rocking in a dry top and bottoms, im trying to decide wether or not i want to go with capilene, and if so would 3 or 4 be better... also if it was you, would you think that would be enough for the cold weather...

then my other option i was thinking about, was maybe getting the polartec top and bottoms... which would you recommend??

[BooF4FooD]

also... what booties do you wear??

[Lupe]

I'll chime in with my latest "discovery" which is wool long johns. Yeah, I know, hardly a "new" product, but I finally got some merino wool longjohns by SmartWool a couple years ago, and I am sold on using wool as my base layer. It's soft and comfy, but the real bonus: it doesn't STINK! Seriously, I used to use capilene or capilene-like long johns under my dry suit and after I would peel off the dry suit my underlayers would really stink. Wool just doesn't hold odor like that. To me, that's worth the slightly higher price for wool vs. something like capilene, so just throwing that out there as another option to consider.

I thought the IR suit basically was a fleece/polartec, so I think you'll find another layer of polartec in addition to that will be too warm. You'll have to experiment with what works for you as different people have different temperature tolerances, but I usually wear thin wool as my base layer, then powerstretch polartec as my top layer (it's fleece that is smooth on the outside - makes sliding on the suit easier). Only when it is REALLY cold do I add a third layer, and if it's warmer, I'll just wear wool and/or maybe a light layer over that (but not the fleece). Hope this helps some.

As for booties - will depend on what works in your boat. I use NRS desperado shoes a size larger than normal for the winter - I need the larger size to fit on over thick wool socks and the dry suit booties.

If you don't have one, don't forget something like a mystery skull cap or hood for your noggin, too! All the warm layers under the drysuit still won't stop a fierce ice cream headache if you roll in the winter with a bare head (bare under your helmet, of course!).

Happy shopping...and stay warm!

[BooF4FooD]

thanks... would the wool or capilene work as a top layer??

[RomanLA]

thanks... would the wool or capilene work as a top layer??

Nah...it would dry faster than cotton, but that's about the only added benefit. You would be soaking wet.

[Lupe]

Ah - I looked up the IR suit and it's a little different than I thought - I must have been picturing a different one. I can see you wouldn't want base layers under that as it's meant to be the base. So, in that case, yes a capilene 3 or 4 would be good, or that powerstretch fleece I mentioned. Although wool is still a great insulator, if not used as a base layer, I'm not sure there's a big enough advantage to pay the extra for it, so I would go with the capilene or polartec layers on top - just like you mentioned.

I guess the only thing may be even the IR suit alone might actually be too warm on some winter days in Arkansas when it gets pretty warm while the water is still very cold...if that's the case, you might want to sometimes use a thinner base layer under your dry wear - just to give you more layering options to cover a wide range of temperatures.