Dry feet, cheaper than dry suit

[Tim Eubanks]

As a padder and a fly fisherman, my garage if crammed with toys. Some of them work in both activities. There has been some discussion here about keeping dry in a canoe/boat without buying a dry suit: bibs. I have wanted to try using my fishing waders in conjunction with a dry/splash top. Finally did it last weekend when we rafted Lower Richland.

Waders are the breathable type with stocking feet, not the heavy neoprene. Couldn't get my feet in any of my shoes with the neoprene ones. A pair of Keen water sandles worked OK, but were kind of tight.
Anyway, these waders are really comfortable to wear and my feet were dry. Drawstring top and snug waistband of splash top made me feel safe in the event of a swim. (Given that we were rowing rafts, I didn't think swimming was very likely)Still working on shoes to wear over the neo feet that are not heavy and will give my toes room to stay warm.

I called Kokatat about putting socks on their Whirlpoos bibs. They quoted $140 for that service on top of $185 for the bibs. I've seen breathable waders for less than $100 at several stores. FYI

[Jim E]

I have encouraged several newer kayakers to use breathable stocking foot waders in conjunction with a dry top as a cheaper alternative until they can acquire a drysuit. Most have taken several swims and report very little leakage with this setup! The key is the dry top with its overskirt and then cinching down the belly strap on the PFD. Like Tim though, footwear continues to be an issue when trying to fit in a WW kayak. Cheap imitation Crocs work well to wear out of the boat and just the wader's neoprene booties while in the boat paddling.

[Tim Eubanks]

The boots on mine are pretty thin, somewhat heavier than some fleece lined socks I have. Don't have to worry about stuffing my feet in a kayak.

[turboturtle]

Just take one swim in those waders. Once they fill up from the inevitable swim, you might drown before you can recoup from them being full of water. Your choice. I wouldn't wish them on anybody I know while out on the creek. Promise that! Well maybe a couple of peeps.
My $0.02

[Tim Eubanks]

If you look at Kokatat's whirlpool bibs and imagine them with socks, they're pretty much like waders. Mine are less voluminous than my Blackrock splash pants. Reading the description for the bibs, nothing is mentioned other than the waistband that fits with a dry top.

Maybe I should wear the combination in the shallow end of the pool (with someone to help me out if it doesn't work) to test it out.

[turboturtle]

Come to the UALR pool Wednesday evening or Saturday and try them out!

[Fish]

If the water can get in and has no way out by draining out in a downwardly direction, you have a potential problem. It'll slow you down a little bit swimming (adds more momentum to your legs/body when you try to kick or change speed and direction), but it can certainly make it harder to get out of the water and to walk once you do. Might not be too bad in a lake, but fast current and slippery rocks on the banks will make the situation much more dangerous. (By the way, wader's don't "pull you to the bottom" if they fill up with water - that's a myth that doesn't make sense.) I know a nylon belt tightened around the top of chest waders is supposed to keep a lot of the water out. I'd test that out pretty well first before I depended on it though.

I had some young guys asking me about avoiding the cost of a drysuit by using waders with waterproof socks/shoes a while back, and I told them I'd never do it. Sure you save bucks, but it only takes one time to struggle getting out of the water or swimming and you could be dead. Hard for me to justify that. If you're putting your life on the line with your gear, don't go too cheap.

To be fair, even drysuits with booties worry me a bit. If you're in the water and a gasket tears you could be in the same situation as with the waders. Having said that, I have drysuit with booties. They are pretty da*n nice on really cold days. I suppose if I ever blow a gasket in the water and start to fill up, I may have to make some drain holes in it with my river knife...

Be sure to post the results of any testing, preferably video, and preferably hilarious.

- Fish

[RandyJ]

Links or pictures of the waders you guys are talking about?

[Cowper]

I love it! You're ALL right!

a $900 dry suit with an open relief zipper or not fully closed main zipper or unexpected failure of gasket or seam could become very dangerous very quickly. It will perform no better, and no worse, than a $100 set of waders under these conditions. I remember reading one a story about one of those high-seas helicopter rescue dudes almost dying because he jumped into artic waters with an open zipper.

"Bibbs" and "waders" are probably 6 of one, half-a-dozen of the other. If you pay attention with how it mates to a drytop, probably OK; if you don't think through those "worst case" scenerios, and work on sealing well enough for a swim, then you're riding on luck and asking for a whuppin' with drowning being on the list of plausible outcomes.

Buying stuff "designed for the purpose" by a reputable paddling company helps mitigate some of the risks. But I don't believe that is the only true path; all new products start with experimentation.

But being creative and thrifty are good things too, and you can probably find a low cost alternative that works for you. Mitigate the risk of your experiment by testing under controlled conditions as Turboturtle suggested.

[Tim Eubanks]

I guess when you look at things in "worst-case-scenario) terms, having wet, cold feet is an easy trade for being dead.

Thought about UALR pool as a test site, thought they might frown on such activity.

Why can't someone make a waterproof sock with a gasket on top?

[turboturtle]

No problem using the pool for a test ground. Let me know if I can be of assistance, like keeping a rope tied to you in case you go down! :roll:

[Jim E]

RandyJ,

White River waders
or
Redhead waders
or
Cabelas waders

All,

I knew that there would be nay sayers before I posted my response ealier. All I can say is if you are interested, try it the exact way I suggested before. You will be surprised. If you swim using a splash jacket, you will get water down in the waders. NO, it will not make you sink to the bottom!! Water inside the waders weighs the same as the water outside of the waders. The time we tried it with just a splash jacket, he got wet through and through but truly only poured out about 2 ounces excess from each foot of the waders.

Try it before you knock it

[Tim Eubanks]

I may take you up on that offer, Turboturtle. Could try it once with a dry top, then with a splash top.

[Richard]

I don't own a wet or dry suit. I do take unexpected swims and so far I have been just fine with my everyday paddling gear. No "base layer" but I do wear expedition weight long johns under quick drying nylon pants and shirt. On top of that is a fleece jacket and in a dry bag are additional layers including ski bibs and parka.

Ooops . . . this is about feet. Well, get a good case of neuropathy and you don't even know your feet are cold.

[ckuntz]

Tim, I'll be there tonight if you want to try it out at UALR pool.
Chris K