Kokatat Drytops

[faxon]

I'm in the market for a new drytop and haven't heard any complaints about Kokatat. I'm leaning towards the Rogue because I've heard nothing but good things, but would like to hear some feedback on the Helix. Whats the deal with Tropos fabric? I'm willing to invest $$ in a good drytop that will last several seasons, but if the Helix will keep me warm and dry, I'd definitely be down with saving a few hundred $$. So what are the advantages of Gore Tex over Tropos? Anyone with first hand knowledge of the Helix?

[okieboater]

Not sure if things have changed.

Maybe 3 years ago I purchased Kokatat Tropos Dry suit.

On various websites, Advised as almost as good as their gore tex but much less.

Took the new tropos dry suit out on creek week in big south in TN. Cold day on first run and I was damp. Next day it was still cold and we went on a much more active run and at the take out I was wet.

Traded the tropos in on a Gore Tex, paid the extra money and have not looked back.

Maybe they have improved tropos, but to me it was a waste of money several years ago. If you are gonna pay the big bucks you might as well pay some more and get the real deal which is Kokatat Gore Tex.

Just purchased a Kokatat Rogue Gore Tex dry top size XL, seems tight on me where my much older Kokatat gore tex was loose. Could just be me, but do a trial fit if you can before you buy.

[Richard]

As I have watched people struggle to get in and out of dry suits and wet suits, I am glad I am a canoeist and can just layer synthetics. In a canoe I have never felt a need to spend the $$$ for something that can get very uncomfortable.

[okieboater]

Richard,

You are exactly correct on your choice of clothing for some canoe trips.

That is one of the reasons I love to do the Buffalo in fall and winter. IE the chances of taking a swim are relatively low and I do not have to wear my dry suit. However, I remember one winter trip on the Buffalo where it rained a lot, was cold and I wore my dry suit and was glad I had it. I was warm and comfy while several others were wet to the bone and my bet is they were not very comfortable.

One real value of a dry suit is when a person takes a swim in cold air temps and cold water. Given a good fit on the dry suit and appropriate layers of fleece inside - most swims on days like this, in a dry suit have happy endings. Even on warmer air but still very cold water - a dry suit can be comfortable with thin capilene layers. I have done this many times rowing rafts and been relatively fine even taking some planned swims.

I have seen winter swims in dry suits and in wet suits. Several of the wet suit swims ended up in us having to build a big white man's fire, stripping down the swimmer and finding dry clothing for them as they toast by the fire. Dry suit wearers generally just shake off the experience and continue the trip.

Bottom line: a dry suit can be considered either a comfort bit of gear or a life saving bit of gear. Just depends on where the person is boating and where / when they swim.

I just took a very long swim on the Grand Canyon. I thought I could easily bust one of the holes in Sockdoliger - the raft did fine but I got tossed overboard. Cold water and comfortable air that day made us row persons comfortable in tee shirts and shorts while rowing.

Had I worn my dry suit and thin fleece, most likely that swim would have been mostly an embarrassment to me instead of a event where if my buds had not taken care of me (because I could not function due to advanced hypothermia) I most likely would not be here today.

Next time I am rowing on hot days but cold Grand Canyon type water, I will have at a minimum my dry top and maybe my dry suit - both with thin fleece but protection from cold water hypothermia exposure.

That is one of the great things about boating. IE we can make our own decisions on what to wear.

My goal for this post is to coach boaters to dress for the swim, not for the time spent inside their water craft of choice. Not saying we can and often do get away with shorts and tee shirts on warm air / cold water float trips, just saying some times the unexpected happens and when it does, you better hope your boating buds are able and willing to take care of you if you should swim in water that makes you unable to take care of yourself.

[Richard]

Dave, You have just shown why I have a great deal of respect for what you have to say. Its all about experience, experience and wisdom.

[okieboater]

For me at least,boating experience and wisdom have both come to me because I have been boating long enough to have made just about all the mistakes one person can make. The good thing is, I have been blessed with great boating buds. Buds who have always been there to pull me from the water and then help me learn from my mistakes.

I thought I had made all the boating mistakes one can make in a boating life time. Wrong.

Sockdoliger is a pretty easy rapid GC wise and I still managed to screw it up thinking that reversal was not that big a deal.

Goes to show we need to give the rivers we run a lot of respect and never get complacent when we think the river is just cruising along.

[cnabors]

I have a kokatat rogue drytop and a the tropos bibs. The goretex material is tougher and more breathable than the tropos. After a day of paddling my upper body will be dry and my legs will be damp from sweat. I am glad I paid the extra money for the rogue. Can't go wrong with it. My bibs feel like they would be easier to tear than the top if you had to bust through any brush.

[anthony]

I witnessed a multi day swim last week with and the guy was wearing a rogue. He was kinda dry, but he also swam a bunch.

wish you were there cary