Feed in Tariff (off topic)

[boba]

Bill Ball was the installer. As mentioned, Bill is pretty much THE Person to talk to if you are serious about solar.
___________________________________
Owner/Operator

Address:
2121 Watt St.
Little Rock
Arkansas
United States
72207

Telephone: 501-225-0700
Fax: 501-225-2920
__________________________________
more details about my system after classes this am. (costs etc.)

[David Mac]

How much does a set up like that cost? How large is it? And, I've heard that when you produce more electricity than you use, the co-op will pay you for the excess. Is this true?

It's my understanding that in Arkansas they DON'T pay you for the excess power. Last time I actually checked it was even net-metering-by-the-month, which meant that if you produced more than you used in any given month you had a zero bill (technically) and then the next month might be charged for using any extra even if you had produced that much extra the previous month. I think it has since changed so that it is averaged over a few months or maybe even a whole year, but that may have been a bill that was introduced and never went anywhere.

In reality you end up paying the utility every month either way, even when you consistantly produce more than you use becuase of service fees and meter reading fees. It might only be a few bucks each month, but you pay the electric company to keep the lines in operation and act as your "battery."

David

[Jody]

Fish, the board you reference as being mine is no longer mine. In fact, I permanently banned myself from it.

It may or may not resurface elsewhere for off topic banter, but I no longer have control of it.

I removed myself from it in an effort to reduce my internet presence due to the fact that I am going into private practice soon and it is much better for the therapeutic relationship to have as little info out there as possible.

[boba]

ok, spring break at ATU has started (for me)and I have a little time. Grant, thanks but no thanks, canoe school is fine where it is,

As to the up front costs, its kind of like the old saw, if you have to ask, you can't afford it. It is expensive, so much so that at current rates, my system is much more altruistic than economic. In big fat round numbers, including a 30% federal tax credit, it came to about 25 grand. I does produce value, unlike a swimming pool or tennis court, so the question is what is the payback time. Well that depends on two things usage rate and avoided cost. Right now with my use rates and about 8 cents a kiolwatt hour, my payback time probably exceeds the expected lifetime of the panels- or not- its close. That having been said, while working with my coop, one engineer said that their projections were that the cost of electricity could go up as much as 250 % in the next couple of decades.

If the legislation which I am flogging is passed, the rate for my energy production would be set to allow me to pay off my system well within the lifetime of the panels, making my investment not only the right thing to do, but actually economically advantageous.


Concerning how I am rewarded for my energy production, my meter is bidrectional, so when the sun shines, it runs backwards. When the come to read the meter I am billed for the hours (net) used. Right now my meter is about 250 kWh behind what it was when the system went online on feb 5. So my bill this time will be only 12 for the meter charge.

stay tuned, I need to go to lunch.

[prophet]

sounds like that Bill is critical to making home solar economical. the only harm i can see to making the utilities pay for it is if it would cost them substantially more $/kwh than current supply or if you're in the coal, hydro, or nat. gas business.

anyone know the details of the cost part of the Bill?

[boba]

The cost of the feed in tariff would be spread over all rate payers in the state, not just an individual utility. Note that the utility constructing the coal fired plant in sw arkansas has asked for a 17 % rate increase to cover the costs of construction. The feed in tariff would set rates for sustainable energy to pay off the "construction costs" in a reasonable time. The bill is written so that every two years (?) the rate necessary to raise the cost to all rate payers would be reassessed depending on a flexible goal of clean power production. As I recall the average rate payer would see something on the order of 3 % increase. Now I can assure you the big coal/gas will scream like a stuck pig, claiming their just trying to help out there customers by keeping rates low. What the are really concerned about is that any price rise makes people think about efficiency, which means lower sales of what ever product the sell.

[boba]

I cant' address the relative merits of batteries vs grid connect, on a cost basis. I decided that the small risk of being without power during an outage was better than the cost and trouble of battery maintenance.

As to where does the excess credit go. The net metering law runs on a calendar year. So come the end of December, any excess production I have over my own use reverts to my utility, in this case a coop. As it is a coop, not a privately owned utility, the owners are the users, so I am giving it up to the other rate payers on the system.

[boba]

Let's title this installment system sizing. Not that it matters but my house is about 1750 sq ft heat/cooled. More important is design and life style. I built my home with efficiency in mind and live by efficiency. Wood heat, propane for cooking and hot water, motion sensing light switches where appropriate, compact fluorescent light bulbs through out, etc. such that my total use is less than 500 kWh per month averaged over a year.

To get a system like mine which should produce all energy needed and then some, multiply your monthly bill, in dollars, by 500. Most people at this point say WHEW, because the average home uses greater than 1000 kWh/month.

If your are considering a sustainable energy supply, I have three words for you: efficiency, Efficiency, EFFICIENCY!


(you guys do realize that I will be billing all of you for this workshop... right?)

actually I work pretty cheap- chuck me a beer the next time you see me on the creek, and I was serious about stopping by my place if you want a take a look see

Oh, and somebody asked about the size- physically it is about 10 X 45 ft
which works out to about 41 meters squared.

[KimL]

Im glad folks have decided it's okay to continue this conversation. Given how dedicated the Arkansas REC directors seem to be to damming the rivers we love to paddle, I think we as boaters need to be just as dedicated in exploring alternatives.

I've seen the array in the set-up stage, and it doesn't feel that big when you are standing next to it.

I think in terms of cost consideration we have to take in not only increases in fuel costs (which are guaranteed to jump if we get out of our economic crisis) and the costs of building new facilities of any kind; we also have to factor in the massive costs of upgrading "the grid," which will eventually get passed on to all of us. The great thing about Bob's system is that you don't need a grid upgrade to move power from a wind farm in Texas to Arkansas; our power is already here.

I've been looking into a thermal hvac unit for our place, to go with a solar array. If we buy here or elsewhere, bit by bit I want to get us away from being consumers to producers of electricity. Bob has been a great inspiration.

Providing tax incentives helps with conversion to renewable energy, but I'd also like to see something like the Guaranteed Student Loan Program for rural households who are coop members to buy renewable energy equipment. The loans could be very low interest and payable by selling back electricity to the Coop--or if you don't have enough to sell back by a certain minimum amount per month on your regular bill. Twenty percent of US households are REC (coop) members. Think what getting 20% of our households into producing electricity could do for power costs nationwide!

We can all do so much to conserve and rethink our energy costs. Bob's got a great plan in practice, and you can thank him a few years from now for helping keep our energy costs from rising to quickly.