Firearms in national parks

[Richard]

Speaking of killing . . . That is the subject?
Guns . . . Killing is their purpose?
Organ Pipe and other NPs?

Anyway, we could kill two birds with one stone. We have two problems that have been plaguing this country for some time now.
1. Illegal aliens crossing our southern border.
2. Where to dispose of nuclear waste.

Yep! You got it! Clever huh.

[Chester]

Hey Bob,
My father and uncle both purchased 1 of each as well. The 03' had a 4 groove (some were only 2) "Star *" barrel and it later shot 1 moa when put in a custom stock. The .45 was a Ithaca if I remember right, and my uncle's was a Singer.
I believe the Springfield was had in the 50's, but think he got the .45 in the late 60's or early 70's.

[Bob Stout]

Chester, the 03-A3 I have has two groves - I've never fired it - I've had a scoped Mod 70 in 30-06 since I was age 17, so never needed it. I later got interested in long-range accuracy and single-shot riflies/ I special orded a Remington 40-X (single-shot target rifle) in .222 Remington Mag - it came from the factory with target taped to the box - a 10 shot group off a machine rest with less than .4 MOA. I've also got a (single-shot)Browning B-78 in 25-06 that shoots almost as good a group, the only ammo that has been fired through it since it left the factory are my Hand-loads.

I stopped hunting and reloading my own ammo several years ago -- the only firearms I fire these days is my Mod 61 Winchester with .22 shorts at pest, and my .40 cal Mod 27 Baby Glock at targets. My son has most of my weapons locked in his gun safe.

[Butch Crain]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... wD94T9LGG1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... from AP, not trolling, just informing.

If it includes a requirement to notify the park rangers that you're packing, I'm for it.

[jclaudii]

This ruling made my day when I saw it a few days ago. I'm glad we get a chance to protect ourselves if we chose in our public parks. :)

[okieboater]

I am a big time advocate of gun safety.

I am a big time advocate of If you do the crime and use a gun, you gotta do the time, no excuses. IE OJ and his recent jail sentence.

I wish all the folks who go to our National Parks were there just to enjoy the experience and not harm others.

That is not the case. Our society these days seems to me to be full of people who do not care for the law. Every week these days in Tulsa Area, one or more drive by shootings take place, many times just a person who happened to walk by gets killed. Dangerous to shop in the shopping centers and Tulsa PD sez - get security if you are not parked by the door. Home invasions every couple weeks. Couple weeks ago a home owner heard a guy kicking on his door, hollered that he had a gun and would use it. Man outside proceeded to kick in the door at which time the home owner fired a round. Bad guy fell to the ground and was found there by the police. Man died on the way to the hospital. Was high on drugs and just happened to pick the wrong house to kick in the door. If the home owner did not have a gun, he or his family may well have been the ones going to the hospital or worse.

I do not know the answer but when I first came to Tulsa in the early 70's it was rare to have a killing of any kind. Now we have them every week and most are either gang, drug or thieft related it seems. Same thing happening in our national and state forest areas.

Bottom line, you can either depend on the police and wait for them to get to you or take steps to defend yourself just in case.

I do not like the thought of having to have my own fire arm to feel comfortable in our National Forests at all, but I sure feel I need the option to defend myself if I feel it is not safe in a specific forest.

I think if you qualify and do the training for a conceal carry license, the ability to have a gun for self protection in a national forest is a good thing. I do wish the CC training was a lot more detailed than it is, but that is just me.

I could go into a lot of cases where the really bad guys have taken over our national forests but no need to start that contest.

PS: At one time I really enjoyed hunting and ate what I shot. Decided not to hunt any more, but do not have problems with those who do.

[Butch Crain]

I understand what you're saying Dave. You can't assume you're safe from other people's evil or stupidity anywhere these days.

But I still have mixed feelings.

My best estimate is that I have well over 10,000 trips to the field in my adult life, some recreational, most work related. I've only felt threatened on maybe a half dozen occasions - every single time it was a plinker getting in target practice with no regard for who else might be in the woods.

The saving grace about this change is requiring training to qualify - people not likely to be randomly discharging guns anytime and anywhere. The only thing I'd add is a requirement to notify the rangers. They've got enough on their plate without having to guess who's got heat and which of those are law abiding.

[okieboater]

Well Butch I cannot match you on number of trips to national and state forest areas, but I can match and raise you a decade or so on length of time visiting same.

I have to say that I traveled all over the SE, mid west and Rocky Mountains over the years and never felt the least bit of concern until maybe the last 5 years for sure and a few more past that maybe.

In the early 70's first thing me and a Bud did when I got out here, was spend a week hiking in the mountains between Taos and Santa Fe. On the way out, slept on the side of NM I40, just pulled over in a wide spot threw out our bags and slept like logs. Daybreak we got up to see several other locals doing the same. Did the same for years in NM around Clayton NM and Taos. Same for Rocky Mt National Park area. Basically find a side road in a national forest, park, toss out the bags and never a worry.

Not now tho. I have been woken up in Interstate rest stops by people attempting to break in my truck. I have been in various national forests camp grounds where I was the only one camping and been awakened by trucks and loud sounding folks that appeared to be drinking looking for fun, I got up and left. Been in more instances in AR, GA, AL, NC and Rockies in the last 5 years where I was very uncomfortable. Couple times even on Corps Lakes in day light, here in Tulsa area where a couple car loads of characters drive in and park close by to drink beer etc etc. Do some googling and find that folks are being ripped off or killed along the AT trail and a bunch of national forest type camp grounds

My take is there are mostly people like you, me and the folks reading this msg board that are there to help our fellow campers and have fun. But, for some reason that 1 percent of either Bozo's or genuine criminals taking refuge in our rest stops, national forests and such are there to rip off, rob or do other bad things to law abiding folks that just happen to be in a pretty isolated area at the time.

Times are indeed changing and what once was perfectly safe is not safe at all in 2008 and getting more dangerous. Too many random acts of violence taking place and many are just reported in the back pages of the news. The people who obey the law are taken advantage of by those who could care less about the law or the consequences of their actions on others.

My opinion is, I am gonna continue doing what I love to do. But, I am gonna stack the odds in my favor just in case that one percent really bad person wants what ever I happen to have and does not value how they get it or who gets harmed in the process. I must admit these days I spend a lot of time in either KOA or cheap motels where I used to just camp out. At my age I have no desire to harm anyone or anything, but before I let some wacko without value for human life take out their flustrations by beating up or worse me, my family or friends - I am gonna fight back - very few police where I like to spend my free time.

[Butch Crain]

Ditto, my friend. SYOTR

[jclaudii]

I sent an e-mail to Bill Wade president of Coalition of National Park Service Retirees and asked why he is so against park guests to protect themselves and their family legally. He was quoted as saying he intends to do whatever it takes to overturn this. I'll let you guys know if he ever comes back to me and says anything.

I with most of you, I hate that you don't feel safe from people anymore in our national parks or while your out camping. We geocache alot up in the Ouachita NFS and some of the caches are WAYYY down roads/trails to the middle of no where. Once you get that far back there, it would be a while before someone could even call for help on a phone. I just rather have and never need (which I hope), than need and not have. I just can't help but think of so many victims where if they had a gun they might be alive today. I currently do not have a CCW, but when I can afford to do so, my wife and I will get one. The gun we pick will more than likely be a Glock, those things are indestructible!

[Cowper]

Guess we've got some good news / bad news here.

Good: If a crazy man charges into one of our ACC camps intent on doing us harm, we won't have to worry about how far away the police are or whether or not we have cell service.

Bad: Several of may go down too in the cross-fire.

[RomanLA]

The biggest drawback that I can see is someone killing a predator unnecessarily. For instance, they decide to shoot a black bear, instead of just scaring it off. With that said, I'm sure people would be a lot more comfortable traveling through grizzly country with a gun. I've been thinking about picking up a .22 survival rifle. It would be nice to be able to carry it if I was passing through a national park.
http://www.henryrepeating.com/h002_survival.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[okieboater]

Was going on a low water kayak self support Selway Run and got concerned about bears. Got a extra large can of bear spray. Since the Selway except for the take out area is pretty much wilderness, none of us mentioned having a gun along but all were happy when I got the bear spray.

Having some knowledge about hunting and shooting, there was no way I wanted to take a fire arm along. I think most charging bears would run right thru all the gun shots even an expert can fire, and proceed to eat the gun and the person at the bear's leisure.

Bear spray to me offers the best protection from any animal big enough to eat us humans IE big area of spray for the bear to run into and yup, even if the bear is on top of you, the bear spray will hurt like the dickens but not kill you and from what I have read, bear spray is effective on bears almost all the time.

Come to think of it, a can of bear spray is probably a pretty effective deterent for bad persons as well.

I think most cc gun owners and hunters for sure are not going to be shooting bears or anything else with CC pistols. Just not the right weapon to get the job done. My guess is most of the shooting of animals out of season or illegal hunting is gonna be done by persons who do not give a hoot what the law sez about firearms in the national forest.

Even tho most of us have heard the story about the kid who shot a trophy buck with a 22 - I think the 22 caliber firearms are best suited for target shooting not for hunting.

[Bob Stout]

I would think that bear spray has a longer range than pepper spray, but don't really know. I'm pretty sure they have different formulas.
I have both a son and grand-son in Law-Enforcement -- all three of us carry .40 Glocks and pepper spray. All three Glocks have night sights, the only difference in the Glocks is that mine is a Mod 27 (Baby). It's my hope that it never becomes necessary to use either.....

[RomanLA]

Even tho most of us have heard the story about the kid who shot a trophy buck with a 22 - I think the 22 caliber firearms are best suited for target shooting not for hunting.

Yeah...it would definitely just be for small game in a survival situation. I'll be opting for bear spray on my trip out west this year.

I found a bunch of information about this on the Department of Interior web site.
Final Rule
Frequently Asked Questions