Why don`t WW paddlers cross over

[okieboater]

I think the folks who do gates are super WW boaters at heart and just like to have a way to be timed to get better.

Some years ago, I happened to be on the Cossatot at a rocking level. The Esses were really cooking, not so much they washed out, just the right current to make things a bit harder than usual.

Just by chance there were two young guys in C1's who were in the upper levels of racing. It was an awesome thing to set in the eddies and watch these two olympians to be just cut the Esses in to bits and pieces and get the max out of that stretch. Must have taken close to an hour for them to finally max it out.

I took a week long creeking course at NOC some years ago when they first started doing creek instruction. The first day we spent at the NOC store gates. Several hours on posture then the rest of the day running gates. At first I thought it was a waste of time, soon tho the value was very visible. That after noon we started working out on lesser wesser and the value of that gate training just jumped right out.

The thing that I remember to this day was the first time we ran the gates we screwed up and looked like clowns. Then the instructors ran the gates like it was a creek run. Big difference. They took us to the bank and told us to forget the time deal. Take plenty of time and do what ever to set up for each gate but we had to put our bows exactly where they said for each gate, right center, center, left center. It was a great lesson plan.

That concept carries over to running creeks. One hit your set up eddy. Two make the next move precisely and on your own time and continue on down.

I think running gates is good training for running creeks and wish we did have a nice course set up somewhere to work out on.

Maybe an idea we all can get our heads together and scope out.

[Donald]

"That's great Donald! I knew there were some racers out there somewhere. Their just to busy training to mess around with us bums.

Do you know a guy named Butch from Russelville who used to run the Texas Water Safari?"

Debo,

I have been too busy working, two outages and helping out down south at Riverbend and Waterford doesn't leave much time for training and running rivers so this year I opted for the training. I am hoping to get out there with you "bums", next year should be a lot less busy so I intend on making sometime for both whitewater and flatwater. Of course we did get a few easy runs on the Illinois bayou they were just at a pace a little faster than most. :) I don't know who Butch is, I just started marathon racing about 5 years ago when Steve Lynn got me to bring my daughter out for some racing with Venture Crew 300.

Don Walls

[Eric Esche]

Not saying that there weren't and aren't racers who are also great boaters. Just trying to answer the question asked, and I answered as I have seen and see it.

And it is not just folks who do gates that learn useful skills. Those down river racers have to learn how to judge currents and river reading to a very fine degree to make snap judgements on strange rivers as to the VERY best and fastest route to take. It's a unique way of running a river that I have used a few times. I practiced after work for a month for a wildwater race to be run down section IV of the Chattooga. USFS wound up denying the permit to hold the race, (or the folks withdrew the permit application knowing it would be denied), but the practice paid off when we had a friend Mike Moriority (MoMo) dislocate his knee at Raven Rock at high water (4.5 rising to 5.5). Robert and I raced down with two first aid kits, ropes, and a stretcher to get him out. It was wide open paddleing that I would not have done as well at if I had not practiced that type of paddleing. Robert had just said I need you to come with me NOW and we went. Wild run. We rarely ran anywhere near a normal route. Screaming Left down the far right, Woodall down the far far left South Carolina Bank (like 200 feet left of where folks normally walk around) into a HUGE hole and roostertail, 7 foot down the right hand bank into a 10 foot hole with an awsome set of approach holes above, Stecoa creek looking more like the Colorado with continuous waves and holes you couldn't see out of or over. Deliverance Rock had a Really big hole on the center to left and screwy curler behind that on the left where Robert ran. I ran right to make sure one of us made it, and found a hole on the back side that surfed me 40 foot before I endered out into that screwy curler coming from the left. Oh, did I mention that Robert was in an open Mad River with only a center block for floatation and I was in a Hollowform. WE made it from 76 Bridge to Raven Rock in a hair less than 20 minutes when I remembered to check my watch. Was probably more like 18 minutes as we had already gotten to Momo under the cliff. Water level was like 10 feet from the base of the cliff and a lot of big woody debris in the eddy there. I'm sure others could do it faster in today's boats, but remember that the level was 4.5 rising to 5.5 and was more like 5.5 by the time Robert and I put on. We had other reinforcements come behind us from Southeastern, but we got there the fastest, and met the ground teams who came in from the top. Robert ferried MoMo around Raven Rock to the backside of Raven Rock after we airsplinted him to have him carried out up the mountain on the South Carolina side around the bend.

Have to say it was the best race I have ever been in. A real race against time and darkness for a friend.

Eric

[RomanLA]

Eric you should start putting those stories on paper. I bet you could come up with one heck of a book!

I've found that flatwater paddling has really helped my whitewater paddling. I paddle a lot on a large lake, so there are small waves and swells. In a 17ft kayak that is only 23 inches wide, I often have to do bracing strokes to stay upright. I have no doubt that this is the main reason that I was able to run the Nantahala for the first time with no swims.

As far as racing, I'm probably the fastest paddler in my club and we have guys that have raced in the Phatwater Kayak Challenge. It just doesn't really interest me. Paddling is a way for me to get to places in nature that most people will never see. River gorges are my favorite places, but I've enjoyed some beautiful places paddling flatwater too.

[Donald]

Race training relaxes me, keeps me in shape and helps with my lower torso strength which in turn prevents my back from hurting. Of course I am also a very competitive person, before I was marathon racing I slalom kayak raced. Our group in Russellville, excluding the Venture crew scouts, is comprised of 40 and 50 year old paddlers. So our competitiveness is tempered by some maturity and we don't necessarily race only to win. Now don't get me wrong when the race starts we are all out there putting it all on the line, but we will paddle with different partners and don't always paddle with who will be the fastest. It keeps it fun and interesting and you learn something different from each person you paddle with. And contrary to what you might think every training run we do is not an all paddle at full speed. The training is mixed with slow long paddles and short sprints. Eric is right on the money though, this type of paddling does attract folks that are more inclinded to enjoy solo sports vice team sports. It probably is because we have bunch of seniors paddling in our group, but we all enjoy racing and at least to me it is a lot of fun. Lastly I started out as a whitewater paddler and still have more whitewater boats than race boats and still enjoy whitewater paddling but my paddling has just taken a slight change in direction. If you want to come out join us old folks sometime, we meet at the Russellville Ski Area on Tuesdays and Thursday starting in March. We have plenty of racing canoes and paddles, so you don't even need any speciallized equipment to paddle with us.

[GutIt]

Firstly, if I may quote a Famous Person?

“I'm 57 with less than half a heart left.” I have had the good fortune to meet this gentleman and I happen to know his Heart is as big as the Great Outdoors itself!

Every year the racing types I know go out to the local backyard river and set gates in a big honkin’ pool. Sometimes two complete courses where one course can be run and then an all out sprint to the second course where it is run. Rinse & repeat! They will generally use red & green painted broom handles!

An excellent example, Roman, of flatwater drills even for slalom racers. Even the pros/Olympians will tell you that their flatwater practice is invaluable. There is really nothing much that can be done in moving water that can’t be duplicated on flatwater. For the most part, it is easier to do in moving water so if you can do it in flatwater, you got it going on in moving water!

For the rest of us “bums”, we do flatwheels through the gates! Our time blows and we get plenty of penalty points assessed for “touching” gates! If you could call “touching” hitting a gate so hard that it comes back and slaps you out of your boat! It’s a lot of fun for the racers and bums alike and a good way to get out and get wet! Or else do the course, touch a gate and you have to perform a roll, then carry on! The sky is the limit!

Now that’s my idea of living in a “gated community”!

[RomanLA]

Every year the racing types I know go out to the local backyard river and set gates in a big honkin’ pool.

Oh that reminds me...Ben Kvanli has gates in the San Marcos River behind his house. It's not whitewater, but it has a pretty good current.

If anyone is bored, here's a video of him training at Rio Vista.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OwRxt0ETJw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[potterspoint434]

This is the type racing I`m talking about , check out the video
http://www.outdoorsinc.com/Outdoors-Inc ... k-Race.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Donald]

This is the type racing I`m talking about , check out the video

That race is one the reasons my smiling face is no longer seen at TEFKACS. The Memphis in May race is a "money" race, 100 smackers to the 1st place finisher in each division. If the price of gas stays as low as it is right now, fat chance of that, I might actually come out ahead this year. There is a large number of racers up in Michigan and I believe the reason for that is the number of money races. With that said I will race regardless of whether there is any money because I like seeing how fast I can go and the competition.

[Richard]

The scheduled date explains it all.
First weekend in May don't expect many if any from the ACC.
Time was invented to keep everything from happening at once.
Didn't happen in this case. Need to tweak the invention.

[Donald]

The scheduled date explains it all.
First weekend in May don't expect many if any from the ACC.

The race that was originally being discussed is the Arkansas River Kayak and Canoe Race in June, that is until we managed to go off on multiple related tangents. The Memphis in May race came up when discussing large numbers of paddlers. Which I believe has a direct correlation to the prize money.

[Richard]

$30/ person (not boat)
($20 for under 18 years old)
How about Senior rates? 65+
Is there a senior citizen division?

[potterspoint434]

I`ll work on that senior rate
The race hardly breaks even with the stuff you have to cover. The cost of the web site, taxes, insurance,awards and t-shirts really eats everything up.
Then when you start the next year you don`t have much money to get started on.
I guess I need to know if there is enough interest to put it on??
I can get the out of state people to come it the local that we need.

[tomcat]

Don, do you have slalom gates hanging somewhere in the Russellville area? Also, do you know where the ACC slalom poles are located?

Tommy Wingard

[Donald]

Don, do you have slalom gates hanging somewhere in the Russellville area? Also, do you know where the ACC slalom poles are located?

I do have the slalom gates, but I don't have them hanging any where. I would love to give them to someone that would use them. Especially if I get to use them also. :) I still have a couple of old slalom kayaks hanging around.

Don