Roll Questions...am I just doing it wrong or...

[Zach]

I'm wondering if I've been doing the c-c wrong.
Over the last 6 months or so my roll, more or less C-C coming up on the front deck, has gotten uglier, mostly in that it has started to hurt my shoulder more and more. Even in the best of situations I feel like my shoulder is completely open. Am I missing how to do the c-c without opening up the shoulder that much. I can't see how to get the paddle to the surface 90 degrees to the boat without my arm fully extended and shoulder all the way open like a nasty high brace.

Last night at the roll session I was working on my offside and kept coming up on the back deck. I started practicing the same thing on the onside. Seemed like I was doing a sweep roll. I asked Patrick to take a look and he said it indeed looked like a sweep roll. I never had to open up my shoulder very far, barely getting out of the box. I also kept thinking that this can't be the sweep roll since I hadn't done anything yet; just felt like I popped up.

So am I doing the C-C wrong? Can you do it without opening up the shoulder that much? In a creekboat I don't notice it much, but in a playboat even when I feel no pressure on the shoulder I can feel that it is in a precarious position. And is the sweep really that easy? If so I've definitely drunk the kool-aid and will be switching over.

[jcarter]

hey Zach,
I probably shouldn't be the first person to offer advice, but i saw you paddling the chronic last night and yes a sweep-roll is that easy! i actually found that my offside sweep is often better than my onside sweep and my c-c, simply because i take an extra second to set up for it while i'm wrongside up. i've seen many different variations of the c-c roll and one of them may cause less strain on your shoulder, but it sounds like you may be better off switching to the sweep roll.

[Don Harwood]

Zach,
It could be just a few fundamental things are not quite right.
When you sweep your paddle to where it is perpendicular, you should be watching your sweeping blade and getting good extension out to 90 degrees with your upper body, thus keeping your hands in front of your shoulder plane.
When you extend your sweeping arm reaching for the surface of the water, you should be trying to curl your upper body towards the surface as well. Flexibility is a must. That position is the first "c" in the c to c roll.
In other words, when your sweep your paddle to 90, you should still have your hands in front of your shoulder plane and be trying to reach to the waters surface with the top of your head.
The closer you can get your head towards the surface the better the "c" and the more dynamic your hip-snap will be!
That said,
I know several rolls, "c" to "c", sweep, back deck, hands, on and off sides for all, and when it comes down to it, I use a sweep roll.
I prefer a sweep to the "c" to "c" because by the time you get swept to a 90, you are already upright!
I would be glad to help if we could hook up sometime!
The Kayak Roll video is a very good vid with outstanding instructors that teach the sweep roll.
I highly recommend it!

[turboturtle]

Guess I coulda got there a little earlier than I did. I'd be glad to spend a few with you clearing up some of the clouds in you head about your rolling issues. I ain't certified but I am certifiable. Oh wait! okay, I did mean it that way. A couple of favorite golden coldies an I'm good to go, you know! Maybe Saturday??

[Zach]

Don, keeping my hands in front of my shoulder plane definitely helps. My problem seems to be worse in squirrly water than in rapids. When the paddle doesn't bite at first, I find myself going farther back to let the blade climb back up before hipsnapping (apparently a bad idea).
Mostly I'm feeling like I need to get away from letting my arm get as extended as the C-C needs.

TT: Saturday I'm out of town, but one of the Wednesday session would be great.

[turboturtle]

Cool with me. A few moments and a few illustrations.