Has anyone seen an open boat do this?

[Heath]

Yes mike thats the one. and folloeing ray was a 30+ ft sycamore then mister hanshaw. is the sycamore still blocking the rapid imediatly below the falls????

[A Savage spanke]

My brothers done Indian Creek in an open boat, could very well be a different one. Talking about a Big Piney put in?

[Fish]

It's Indian Cr. coming down the mountain near Kyles Landing I bet. Extremely steep (parts of it exceed 400 fpm), with an upper part that is quite... interesting.

Other side of the same mountain is a creek with the same gradient, different geology, and three times the watershed. Anyone interested in going to run that one the next time it rains hard on Sherman Mountain? :twisted:

- Fish

[Ryan Viser]

I don't suppose there's any pictures out there of either of these creeks are there? I'd love to see what 400 fpm looks like. Sounds worse than Horsehead. Also, am I correct in guessing that there probably aren't a whole lot of pools or eddies on something like that?

[canoe]

No pools or eddies on Indian creek. I have 2-3 pics of Indian creek with boaters , and several more without water on my cabin wall, so stop ther next time Richland is up or at the Halloween party and I'll show you. Dale

[jermdog]

Fish, are you talking about the one that goes through the horseshoe canyon ranch or a holler over? Either way, I'm down.

[Ryan Viser]

Man, how would you be able to do something like that without scouting? The way I see it, you gotta be insane or have a real darn good memory. I don't have that great of a memory, but i AM insane, hehe.

[Fish]

I'm talking about Boulder Cr. Doesn't go through Horseshoe Canyon. Watershed + gradient + boulders + > 2 miles = probably the toughest run in the state.

Ryan, you hike these runs beforehand to check them out usually. There are some workable eddies at reasonable water levels, even at 400 fpm. But there are also long stretches where you can't stop, and that's what makes it interesting. :)

Seriously, anyone thinking about doing these kinds of creeks should know, we put a lot of time into hiking them in the off season to figure out where the trees and eddies are. Without that, we would be insane. And still a tree can be down where you weren't expecting it. Things can quickly get ugly.

Have fun and be safe.

- Fish

[canoe]

Boulder Creek----- i've hiked it, It is definetly different from any creek I've seen in Arkansas, would be interested in atempting a run, but only at right levels. The problem I see, beside the obvious(steep,blind, undercut, and the fact that it is the worse looking thing I've ever laid eyes on) is that there is a high pucker(read injury/death) factor involved....Dale

[ARzach]

I'm talking about Boulder Cr. Doesn't go through Horseshoe Canyon. Watershed + gradient + boulders + > 2 miles = probably the toughest run in the state.

Ryan, you hike these runs beforehand to check them out usually. There are some workable eddies at reasonable water levels, even at 400 fpm. But there are also long stretches where you can't stop, and that's what makes it interesting. :)

Seriously, anyone thinking about doing these kinds of creeks should know, we put a lot of time into hiking them in the off season to figure out where the trees and eddies are. Without that, we would be insane. And still a tree can be down where you weren't expecting it. Things can quickly get ugly.

Have fun and be safe.

- Fish

Aren't we waiting for our probe and his Honcho to come back so that we have somebody that will run the Falls on Boulder?? :shock: :shock: :shock:

--Zach

[Fish]

Our experiences on Boulder are like yours on Upper B., Dale. 6 to 8 hours to go 2 miles. My first trip there we were unprepared for what it would be like - hiked out after 3/4 mile and got to the cars well after dark. Second trip, we were well prepared. Put on early, good water level and holding, great paddling team (the founding members of Team Stupid). We all knew it would be the biggest thing we'd ever attempted. The start wasn't too bad, but a sieve nearly nailed us anyway. The upper canyon was littered with undercuts and trees, but I knew it would be and I just kept saying we needed to run/portage fast to get to bigger creek downstream. We portaged about 4 or 5 times there, and we ran a couple of big time drops (Hang A Lefty up there is still one of the ugliest/baddest things I've ever tried without seeing someone do it first!). When the confluence hit, we were on a lot more water, and it looked good to go. Ran the class 3 water that separates the two canyon sections. Then Pretzel and Elbow started off things and it started raining again. For a while, I thought we'd be hiking out, but the rain stopped and we kept pressing on through the boulder mazes below Pretzel. We should have done more scouting, but it entailed climbing up on tall boulder piles out of unstable eddies, and would have slowed us down too much. At some point, Zach got stuck in two or three holes in one "rapid" while Sean and I waited for him in an eddy - we couldn't see him at all it was so blind. We made it down to the start of the "Falls" with some uncomfortable situations, but in one piece. Looked at the "Pearly Gates", which was solid class V with Salvation Eddy following it. Miss that and you were heading down the worst class VI cascade I've ever seen in person. We all walked/climbed around and put in for more 4/5 rapids below. Paddled the class 3+ water in the last quarter mile in twilight and it was dark when we loaded the boats. A memorable trip indeed.
Some photos are here:
http://www.ozarkpages.com/cgi-bin/galle ... ulder%20Cr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
First "attempt" level was really too low, making way too many sieves. The last photos are from the second run, and I think the first one is looking down the Pearly Gate (Salvation Eddy in the distance). The second photo is of the Cascade in the Falls. You're literally looking down on treetops from that vantage point...

I've often thought that I'd like to do it again, but it's not something I take lightly at all. Need a very solid group who knows what they're getting into. Our group had run quite a bit of class V - Sean said it was reminicient of the Green or Vallcieto Cr. only longer and more sustained. From what I've heard and read of Blackwater, it sounds a bit like that to me. I certainly haven't seen anything else like it in AR - parts of Possum Walk, Fern Gulley, Long Branch, etc. are like that, but they are very short by comparison. All of us on that run thought that someone hiking the bank with a rope (or two) would be great - we didn't have time to set safety up most of the way down.

Jermdog, if you're interested in it, let's go hike it in the next month before the water gets up. Need to check for wood, and also it makes a big difference if you've hiked and know what's down in there.

Sorry, Dale, I still can't top your stories though. I doubt anyone ever will!

...Fish

[Ryan Viser]

Yeah, I was looking at those pictures last night Fish. That mess is crazy!! That huge drop on the falls, lord, I'd hate to go off a little too much to the right. You'd land right on top of that huge boulder, eeeesshh. I would just love to be able to hike along the bank and watch you guys do this, snap some good pics. Sounds like the going is slow enough that a hiker could keep up.

[Cathy]

http://www.ozarkpages.com/cgi-bin/galle ... Dimension=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pic of Zach with braces... priceless!

[Fish]

Pic of Zach with braces... priceless!

Yeah, I think he had just turned 12 when we did Boulder Cr.

- Fish

[okieboater]

I hiked Boulder Creek with Fish on one of the early scouting runs.

At the time, I thought, this thing will not ever be run because it would take a monster rain fall to get the water and two if the run got enough water, all the gnarly back to back drops would kill the normal boater.

I was both surprised and elated when Fish and buds made the run and no one got hurt.

What got me was many of the major drops (and many are back to back) are just car sized rocks piled up on top of each other with the normal stream running ten to fifteen feet below the top. The cross currents and funny water on the first descent must have been monster to deal with.

Tip of the hat and well done to the first descent team on this creek.