RIVER CAMPING 101- Ohhhhhhhhh Cr. . .

[Bob Stout]

I know it would be more hassle to empty and clean the ECO-SAFE system, but the cost of the WAG BAGS for the PETT TOILET system would pay for a ECO-SAFE system several times over. When ACC groups were not taking the ECO-SAFE on local rivers, it could possibly be rented for a small fee to ACC members for western river trips.

To my knowledge, just about all state and federal camp grounds in the state now have dump stations.

We do need to have a safe system for ACC member use - I would help pay for which-ever system the "board" or a committee decides to purchase.

[Richard]

I agree with Bob. I too am in favor of the ECO-SAFE system.

That does not mean I have given up on the luggable loo just yet but it is not proven whereas the ECO-SAFE system is.

[robkanraft]

Richard,
If I understand your experiment correctly, I guess my issue is leaving a concentrated bag of s@#$ buried in the woods. Geo Cache NOT! I’ve never personally seen a PETT bag, but if it is strong enough to be handles and portable, I think it would be a long time before the buried “artifact” allowed and its contents returned to dust. I salute you for bringing this to the table, as it has been an interestingly subject! I have personal experience with the carryout Partner Steel and EcoSafe systems. If you need to utilize a group toilet system, think the EcoSafe makes sense.

[Richard]

I guess my issue is leaving a concentrated bag of s@#$ buried in the woods

robkanraft, that is the downside of doing anything but carrying it out and off the river to a dump station. Cat holes appear to be OK with everyone so long as they are in good soil, free of TP etc and not subject to being flushed into the river.

What I had in mind was an expanded cat hole. Looking at NOLS and other referenced sites, I find that most have reference to western locals and NOLS emphasized lack of data. They did raise serious concerns about viral longevity and contamination. But the supporting data is lacking.

So there are two issues with my system.
1. too much in too little space. I have not found supporting data that tells me it is unsuitable for the Buffalo when disposed of in proper soil away from the river and human activity.

2. leaving the bag behind. The Biobag claim is that the bag breaks down as fast as the fecal matter. It is made of corn. In fact looking at comments about the Biobag and a concern that I have is it may start breaking down before we want it to. Thus the liner bag as a precaution.

The ECO-SAFE system is essentially a toilet seat on a sealable plastic container. I am now considering a luggable loo - Eric Esche option. Eric has found some ring/lids that make a 5gal bucket water tight. If it works I think it would be just as good as the ECO-SAFE at a small fraction of the cost. I haven't tried it yet so I have nothing to back up my thinking. I would think a 5 gal bucket would be a whole lot easier to clean.

[Bob Stout]

Dave (okieboater) - thanks for posting that Cascade Outfitters was having a sale on the Eco-Safe system - I just put one, and a spare tank on order. When it comes in, you can leave yours at home when you come to the Buffalo.

[Richard]

Bob, you might be able to get it for less and free shipping
http://www.altrec.com/helpdesk/cs.pricematch.jhtml

[Bob Stout]

Thanks Richard, but I've already committed -- it's still a good deal for something we need.

[okieboater]

Well Bob, between you, me and Roger H. - we should be able to handle 6 rocket boxes of poo. Welcome to the Poo Transport Team!

Maybe if we start doubling up on our dutch oven cooking on the Lower Buffalo Canoe, Camp, Chow down and Poo Trips - we can fill em all up?

What we need is some float trips!

PS: Ok Bobby, I'll give you the facts on what I have learned about the use and clean out of Eco Safe Poo boxes on our next float, if we tandem that would give us another topic to talk about

[robkanraft]

Richard, it never occured to the bio bag would break down too quickly. My only caution with using a plastic bucket and Gamma seals... unless you can come up with a way to make a gas relief valve, you could potentially end up handling an explosive device! Hang in there. we can ride this thread till the rains come. rob

[Bob Stout]

Dave, will welcome your information and advice - I do remember watching you, Tom, and Rio at the Rio Grande Village "dump-station" when we completed our week trip through Colorado & Santa Elena Canyons in and above Big Bend NP - that was......winter-before-last??? My, time flies when you're having fun

[scoutdad]

Ok, first I want to say I believe catholes are the best accepted method as directed by the forest service. Second, the bio bags do have some merit that has been overlooked. The material they are made of will help in breaking down of the poo inside, MAYBE making a single dump (no pun intended) break down faster than a multiple cat holes in poor soil.
It will be interesting to see how this works out if Richard follows up on this.

[Roy Staggs]

All this talk about POO is making me want to go

















Paddling.

[Paddlegal]

How about these? Aapproved for disposal in a land fill; take it home and put it in the trash.

http://www.thepett.com/index.php?PageLa ... &pageID=95
(we don't have a poo emoticon, so I had to use a chicken.)

[okieboater]

Just be sure it is approved for your area's land fill and the river ranger on the river you want to float.


According to posts I have seen on various rafting msg boards some river rangers out west and some land fills do not accept these bags. I know the landfill in our county does not accept human excrement no matter how it is bagged. However, my guess is a ton of throw away diapers get into the land fill anyway. So much for following the rules I guess.

[Bob Stout]

The WAG-BAG has been part of the discussion -- it is the container that makes the PETT system work.