Apparel Question

Paddling gear and boat review
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Metatron

Apparel Question

Post by Metatron » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:53 am

Hey All,

I have a question. We are new to Kayaking, loving it, but if we want to kayak late into fall and early spring what type of wear do we need? We're rec kayakers, maybe some class II II+. Not planning on rolling but want to know what gear we would need to stay warm when the water's cold.

I've looked at the NRS website for some info, but I'm confused. What is the difference between dry wear and semi-dry, , splash jackets, hydroskin farmer jane's, wetsuits, gloves, and booties?

As you can see, I have no clue about what type of apparel we would need.
:D

Any info would be greatly appreciated!!

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RandyJ
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Post by RandyJ » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:50 am

Meta,

I can give a quick overview that may help. Neoprene is the material used in Hydroskin, farmer johns, etc. The way it works is that when it gets wet, your body warms the layer of water that the neoprene holds next to you. Fine for one or two dips, but if you're paddling agressively and/or flipping a lot, it won't be long till you're really chilled. Farmer john/janes are sleeveless and sometimes legless to improve comfort and mobility while still insulating your core. Since they are usually a few millimeters thick and need to be snug against your skin to be effective, they're less comfortable/more restrictive than other paddlewear. It does, however, provide some impact protection if you go for a swim.

Drysuits and drytops are made of coated nylon - may be breathable a la Gore Tex - and have tight latex seals at the neck, wrists, and ankles to REALLY keep the water out. You wear some type of layer underneath to wick up the perspiration and the one or two trickles of water that inevitably get in when you roll or swim. Most comfortable and effective; also most expensive.

Semi-dry tops are similar to full drytops/drysuits, but typically have seals that aren't as effective - like maybe latex at the wrist, but neoprene at the neck. In other words, to save money, you're willing to accept some leakage, won't be paddling as agressively, or the air/water temps aren't as cold, etc. These certainly have a use. Let me know where you find any semi-dry water, though. I want to experience it.

Splash- or spray-jackets are usually just coated non-breathable nylon with neoprene or velcroed cuffs. They'll keep the splashes off, but if you flip, they'll do very little to keep you from getting soaked. Cheapest cost of all the above. If you're wearing these alone, you probably don't expect to flip, or you have neoprene or other insulation underneath.

For the boating you describe, you would probably be happy with a farmer john/jane neoprene, Capilene or fleece top, and a splash jacket. BUT, if you can afford it, I really recommend a breathable-fabric drytop. They really keep the water out, extend your range of motion, your range of temperature comfort on any given day and they extend your overall season. My Gore-tex drytop is comfy from the 30's into the 60's or even 70's. Until I wore it, I would have never believed that you could be that comfortable on the water.

My rule of thumb is to dress one "layer" warmer than I really think I'll need that day. It's usually easy to cool off if things get warm, but it's always harder to warm up after getting chilled. It also pays to expect the unexpected - long swim, sudden dip in the temps, or broken-paddle-gotta-hike-out-after-dark-in-early-December.

Hope that helps.
Let there be rain!

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RomanLA
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Post by RomanLA » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:24 pm

I started a thread on this subject a week or so back...here's a link...
http://www.arkansascanoeclub.com/mb/vie ... php?t=6768

NRS has a ton of stuff on sale right now. I ended up getting a semi-dry top from their web site. I bought the rest of my gear from Outdoorplay, since it was cheaper with my club member discount. Here's what I got...

Navigator Gloves
Stampede Semi-Dry Top
3mm Farmer John Wetsuit

I already have some 5mm neoprene dive booties and I'll probably pickup a neoprene hood at the local dive shop too. That way I can try it on with my helmet. I'm planning to grab an Under Armor cold weather top or the wal-mart equivalent as suggested in the other thread for an insulation layer.

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Post by Cowper » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:38 pm

RomanLA wrote:I'll probably pickup a neoprene hood at the local dive shop too. That way I can try it on with my helmet.
Most dive hoods are pretty thick, restrict your flexibility more than you want for paddling, and will fit under your helmet only if it is really loose when you are bare headed. Check out those mystery material storm hoods (1mm thick). I know several folks who have one (including me), I don't know anyone that isn't impressed with it.
Trash: Get a little every time you go!

Metatron

Apparel Question

Post by Metatron » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:46 pm

Hi guys,

Thanks so much for your advice. You've given me a lot of info and helped me not be so confused. One other question :D If I buy a dry top/suit, do I need neoprene underneath, or just something like the Armour that was discussed?

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RomanLA
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Post by RomanLA » Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:11 am

Cowper wrote:Most dive hoods are pretty thick, restrict your flexibility more than you want for paddling, and will fit under your helmet only if it is really loose when you are bare headed. Check out those mystery material storm hoods (1mm thick). I know several folks who have one (including me), I don't know anyone that isn't impressed with it.
I heard that mystery material is like velcro and rips out hair. :P

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Chester
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Post by Chester » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:32 am

Mystery material is on the outside, but lined on the inside. :) I'm kinda hot natured, so it's gotta be really cold and/or I expect to roll before I wear mine.

Trismegistus
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Post by Trismegistus » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:26 am

If I buy a dry top/suit, do I need neoprene underneath....?

No not unless you are really prone to being chilled. I usually just wear polypro underclothes under my dry top/suit unless it is really cold then I will layer with either hydroskin or fleece. If I have to go beyond my layers of hydroskin, polypro, fleece -- then it be way too cold (less than 2 degrees with heavy wind) for this boy to paddle.

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A Savage spanke
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Post by A Savage spanke » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:38 pm

If it's a true drytop, then you can just wear whatever underneath it...or nothing at all, you're in a kayak, who's gunna know? I love hydro skin, I could afford it, and it's warm. I don't like wetsuits a whole lot (even though that's kind of what hydroskin is) because you are just as cold initially untill your body heats that water. I have a splash top that I love because I do roll and take on a whole lot less water when i'm wearing it. Earlier someone said they didn't help when you roll earlier earlier, but it sure helps me.
It could be worse, it could stop raining
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Post by Crane » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:54 pm

As to semi-dry tops. I took one along on our Grand Canyon trip, which turned out chillier than expected. Chris Kelly, a great open-boater from Missouri had bought a new dry-top for the trip & found the neck too small for extended comfortable wear. I loaned him the semi-dry IR top & he paddled the whole river in it, including a loooonnnnggg swim underneath the protection of his boat at Lava. He noted that he only got a couple of drops down his neck, noted how comfortable the semi-dry was when compared to his dry-top, and indicated he planned to buy a semi-dry top when he got back home. I guess his lesson is that to him the comfort makes up for a few drops down the back... Since I don't spend much time swimming (FORGIVE ME RIVER GODS!!!) the semi-dry has served me very well for the last several seasons.
Crane

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