How many thwarts in your canoe

[SingleBlade]

I gave up getting some replacement gunwales from Buffalo. I called one day and they had replacements. I tried calling back several times to set up a time to purchase some replacements, but I couldn't get an answer. I tried the hotel, but the unfriendly lady on the other end of the line said they no longer made canoes and didn't have parts. I ended up spending a lot more and going through ed's canoe. I purchased the 17' knockdown gunwale system with the complete repair kit and upgraded to the contoured seats. It turned out decent. It ended up taking a little more time than I expected. I only had a couple of small blemishes from getting in a hurry. Like any project, I sure that the next one, if ever, will turn out better. I still need to add one more thwart in front of the stern seat to be original. I have noticed some boats with only a center thwart. I have seen some boat with a center thwart and one in front of the stern seat. I have also seen some that had an additional thwart behind the bow seat. How many thwarts do you have in your boat?
Before

After
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Now my gunwales look a lot better than the rest of the canoe. It has a lot of scratches and a few small creases. I figure it was a worth the effort especially since they don't make Royalex anymore.

[paddledog]

Looks good.
I am no expert on question of number of thwarts, but what I have
noticed was "lake" canoes have the fewer thwarts and those made
for moving water may have more.

[kru1]

Looks great, I have never seen a buffalo canoe with wood gunnels. Can you post some profile/side pics?

My Spirit II has three, but it is 17 vs your 16' Buffalo. I am not a fan of the thwart behind the bow seat because it affects me when i want to turn the boat around to paddle solo. However, it is structure, and I am not going to mess with the engineering behind it. Although I haven't specifically looked, I have never noticed a 16/17' tandem that didn't have at least two thwarts in the center bay.

kru

[SingleBlade]

That is a good point about placing a bar behind the bow seat. The project wasn't too bad, it was a little difficult once the canoe starts turning in and up. I didn't have the best clamps, and I didn't have any help. A second set of hands would have been very useful at times. I basically left 1/16" to 1/4" of Royalex sticking up with rails installed. I used a belt sander to sand level afterwards. After everything was assembled, I took it apart and used Watco teak oil. I made sure to oil all the holes also. I found a few guides on the web and followed them. A few tips would be don't rush. I drilled a hole to much off angle and seen the screw when I was sanding . I filled the hole and drilled at a correct angle. It won't matter once I get some battle scars, but it is aggravating when you are aiming for perfection. Also I used a crayon to mark all off the old rivet holes. It allowed me to miss them with the new screws. Might make a note of any extremely high or low holes. You might have to adjust the curveof the rails to cover everything. Also, don't forget to check the bottom side to make sure that you have all the old holes covered. The way the ends of the canoe are shaped by the mold prevents you from making the "fancy" end cap style. If you have a local source for ash and the tools it could be cheaper, but I don't have a lot of woodworking tools, so I ordered the knockdown style. Also with the longer seat drops and contoured seats it should be even more stable. Some more photos.....

[Walter Felton]

Beautiful Job! I have done a dozen or so sets of wooden gunwales and it is not an easy task. I am no structural expert but I think you need a couple more thwarts. One big item, in my experience, is the wood gunwales are more flexible than the plastic/aluminum version thus requiring a little more support. You have committed to the center carry thwart so that make the center section a little less stable than if it had two thwarts like the original design. For me the bigger concern would be the use of the drop down seats (which I like because as you said it improves stability and they look great) verses the seats that mounded flush with the gunwales and served as thwarts. Personally I would add one behind the bow seat and one behind the stern seat at a minimum and consider one between the stern and the middle thwart. Again as someone said the difficulty of the water that you plan to paddle has some effect on the amount of structural support you will need. Bottom line is, it is a matter of what you expect the boat to do and how you want to put it together.

Walter Felton

[SingleBlade]

I am planning on adding one more between the center and stern seat in the original position. I might add some more later. After thinking about it more, I probably won't be doing any rough stuff. If I decide to step it up a notch, I would put in some air bags and probably go with Walter's suggestion of behind both seats. Thanks

[Deuce]

Great work! That new wood looks really classy against the yellow Royalex. You should be proud. Nothing to add on the thwart question except this; stuff doesn't necessarily have to be that "rough" to cause a pin and wrap. Just something to consider. Enjoy your new creation. You really did a great job!

[okieboater]

I cannot comment on the need for extra thwarts, but after many decades of boating with Walter, if he makes a suggestion I follow it.

I can comment on the craftsmanship your works shows. That is the best looking Buffalo Canoe (brand new or used) I have ever personally seen.

I was down in Chile some decades ago with Mike Yee. We were on the 7 tea cups. After they looked, no one else wanted to run the first drop but me and Mike. You lower your boats down a steep drop into the gorge and it was really hot and sweaty that day. Neither Mike or I scouted as we were last to lower our boats and helped each other while the others looked. We relied on the guide's advice who said just paddle around the curve and lean forward. Both Mike and myself were a lot more trusting then. It was a you go first, no you go first back and forth discussion. Mike lost the coin toss to me. So he ran the so called Perception waterfall first. This water fall made famous by a Perception kayak advertisement of the time. I was just around the bend (the entrance is a bit curved) I heard a big crack along with groans from the camera vultures, then a cheer. What most people might not know is that waterfall ends up in a really small room sized space. So Mike in his if memory correct Mad River, came off with too much speed and hit the far wall. Busting him out of his straps and breaking the right side gunwale like a broken bone. Soon as the groans stopped and I heard the cheering, I shoved off. On the lip I could see I needed more left angle and got it, but ended up sucked back into the reversal and after a while swam out. I think my success happened because I was in a Perception kayak. Nothing broken but my pride.

Any way, our next stop was the Rio Fuy. We ended up in a really nice back country lodge. So back country the lodge owner had his own carpenter shop and resident guru. The lodge owner spoke English and allowed his man could fix that canoe easily. So we took the canoe into the shop. Turns out the lodge furniture and finish carpentry work was done either by or under the supervision of this craftsman. All hand tools. Did not take but a day or two and the finished result looked better than new. Since no screws etc available, the Senor carefully removed the stock screws and reused them on the repair. Senor used local wood. Have no idea the name. But, it came back looking as Mike said 'better than it looked brand new'.

Bottom line, that until now was the best looking replacement gunwale I had seen until now.

You have a fellow craftsman down in Chile close to the River Fuy!

Excellent work you have done

'

[Canoe_Codger]

I added a thwart behind the bow seat in my Blue Hole when I reoutfitted it. But I made sure that it left me room to turn around for solo paddling. As it turned out, moving that seat slightly forward and the thwart slightly aft gave the right balance without compromising hull rigidity. I also used the seat drops to lower the CG and they don't give the rigidity of the original straight aluminum seat supports. Great job on the refurbish!