White Water vs Flat Water - Boats

[Stronger]

Hi All,

Some of our Bayou Haystacker Paddle Club members, here in S. LA, are having a conversation about what constitutes or passes for a white water canoe and what does not.

One school of thought is a Solo 13 outfitted with float bags is fine for Class 2 (may be Class 1) Rivers such as the Okatoma in MS and for most WW in Arkansas.

Another is the Solo 13 is too flat on the bottom and too low volume. So the Solo 13 and Odyssey are good for flat water and the Mohawk XL would be better for WW.

I tried WW, last Fall and made the mistake of going on rivers far too difficult for my experience. It scared me into not wanting to be on moving water again. Until now. I think I'm ready to try again. But which boat should I paddle?


Thank you,

Deborah

P.S. I seem to remember that DeBo paddles maybe a Solo 13...? I think so.

[Canoe_Codger]

http://mohawkcanoes.com/flatwater/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mohawk does a fair job explaining the differences on their site with the category listings. IMHO, experience is the best teacher for what works best for an individual. You'll learn what features make a canoe best for what application. "Back in the day" true whitewater canoes were few and far between and it was "Paddle what you brung". Of course floatation, if any was added at all, was a cut and formed Styrofoam dock billet. I have rum mild whitewater, such as the Spring, in a small low volume solo boat meant for easy water with very low volume. I spent more time than I would like to admit emptying a swamped canoe. It was entertaining though for myself and those witnessing my folly. I've done heavier whitewater in flat bottom canoes with a keel, a real challenge but doable with some effort.

I suggest you use the Odyssey if that is the closest you own to a WW canoe instead of the S13. And go with a few experienced friends who can show you the lines to take, help you learn the skills needed for easy whitewater, and be there to help you get rightside up and floating again when you make a mistake (don't fear the mistakes, if you don't make some you aren't learning!). Really though, up to class 2+, if you wear a proper fitting PFD (don't scrimp here) and have any floatation at all in your canoe there is little to fear other than fear itself.

Bestest, IMHO, is to take a ACC course to pick up a lot of good moving water pointers from excellent, experienced and patient instructors. I'm sure you will get plenty of good advice here so keep checking back.

Oh... if you don't have a good PFD, check the Astral Buoyancy "Linda". Good quality and reasonably priced. I have the men's version and I love it (Ronny). Very adjustable and with side and back venting so you can wear it comfortably in warmer weather. They aren't worth a toot laying in the bottom of the canoe or used as a seat cushion!

Michael

[Cowper]

I wouldn't say the Solo 13 is good "for most of the WW in Arkansas", but only because we have so many good runs if you know where to look and are willing to chase the rain. Richland, Hailstone, Cossatot, Bobtail, Beech, Baker Creek, Galla, Crooked Creek (the one near Little Missouri, not the one up near Yellville), the list goes on and on once you start adding in micro-creeks and the stuff that runs for only one day after a big rain.

But that's a minor clarification. For most of the better known "major" rivers that are Class II, the Solo 13 with air bags would be just fine, at normal levels. While it is true that the boat is a bit low volume and you'll take on some water in higher waves, it is also true that in a boat with a more rockered hull you'll wear yourself out paddling the long pools of our pool-drop rivers on most days at normal river levels. The Solo 13 may not be optimum in the rapids, but the more rockered boats with higher sides won't be optimum in the pools, especially if it is a windy day.

If Debo and I headed to the Big Piney or the Mulberry, I can assure you she would choose the Solo 13, and we would clip in the air bags before launching. I should mention that Debo's Solo 13 has been slightly modified to make it more suitable for mild whitewater. Specifically, I raised the seat for her to be even with the gunwales, instead of the more common 4" drop. Debo has good balance so this does not cause her any stability issues in flatwater. But what it does do is allow her to kneel with her feet under the seat, with much lowered risk of trapping her feet under the seat in event of an upset. When we come to a rapid, she can quickly shift from her comfortable seated position down to a kneeling position, which makes a world of difference for handling in the livelier water. The amount of water the Solo 13 takes on is typically dealt with using a sponge, not a bailer, if that tells you anything.

We've considered getting a more WW specialized boat for Debo, but it just hasn't been a priority because the Solo 13 can get the job done, and is a pleasure to carry and load compared to the much heavier WW models.

I think Debo has a little bit to add to this, but she's on the way to the Swamp right now, so she'll have to come back and add that later. Basically, she does pay a little more attention to running a "dry" line than what would be necessary in a boat designed specifically for WW. But that accommodation is more than worth it to not have to push a pig through the pools.

[Stronger]

Thank you for helping. Chris suggested I bring both canoes. I like that idea. The XL had a pedestal seat before. I'm going to try to have it put back in, next week. My Solo 13 has a thwart seat I can get my feet under: It doesn't have thigh straps though and I'd like to have those.

I've gotten a little spoiled to a Slipper one of senior members owned. It's easier to paddle in a straight line and so I haven't paddled my Solo 13 in months. He's just explained to me why this is. I have a better understanding now.

Another BHPC member suggested I buy a WW paddle. He said the blade should be bigger than either of the paddles I own - an Expedition Plus and an AB Edge (carbon). There are not a lot of WW opportunities in the Louisiana and so I really don't want to purchase another paddle. I'm hoping one or both of these will do.

I'm looking forward to it. Thanks, again.

Deborah

c'è solo l'avventura

[Canoe_Codger]

Thank you for helping. Chris suggested I bring both canoes. I like that idea. The XL had a pedestal seat before. I'm going to try to have it put back in, next week. My Solo 13 has a thwart seat I can get my feet under: It doesn't have thigh straps though and I'd like to have those.

I've gotten a little spoiled to a Slipper one of senior members owned. It's easier to paddle in a straight line and so I haven't paddled my Solo 13 in months. He's just explained to me why this is. I have a better understanding now.

Another BHPC member suggested I buy a WW paddle. He said the blade should be bigger than either of the paddles I own - an Expedition Plus and an AB Edge (carbon). There are not a lot of WW opportunities in the Louisiana and so I really don't want to purchase another paddle. I'm hoping one or both of these will do.

I'm looking forward to it. Thanks, again.

Deborah

c'è solo l'avventura

Deborah, you can pick up new Carslile or Mohawk aluminum shaft plastic bladed paddles (we call them "snake-beaters") for about $25 or so each. And they will take a lot of abuse on rocky, moving water. I have some of each over ten years old and I promise I haven't babied them. They have broad blades and flat tips for better purchase in shallow fast water and they don't care if you dig them into gravel or use them to fend off rocks and trees. Just something to consider. Oh... and both brands come in different lengths and grip shapes, tee or pear.

[sig]

The all black AB Edge is a whitewater paddle.