stretching 'biners

[hilbili]

During a recent canoe recovery, I noticed the lock on the anchor biner was very tight. It was loaded up pretty good.
The link below shows we had a 6:1 mech adv. my question is, how do you decide when to retire the items we used. the rope and anchor straps etc...


http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread734949/pg1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[adamm]

Was the gate tightened down when the biner was under load? In a situation where your life or someone elses will depend on the gear (ie climbing rappelling etc), if you question its integrity replace it. For a piece of recovery gear you are probably ok but biners are relatively inexpensive so if its in the budget go ahead and replace it.

[paddledog]

The time to retire gear is when you ask yourself
"Is it time to retire this ________". When you compare
the price of the 'biner to the price of the boat/person
on the other end of a failed MA rig, it gets kinda cheap.

I have a bag of retired stuff. Hardware gets painted a
separate bright color to not get confused. I use these
for non critical tie downs or training.

[Cowper]

When we talk about "stretching 'biners", I think it is important to know, do you mean you know it was stretched because it was locked while under load, or can you inspect the biner and see some permanent, physical deformation has occurred?

I think folks who weren't there and don't have the opportunity to see the biner in person to inspect it really have no choice but to give you the conservative answer - if you are in doubt or uncomfortable, replace it. As someone already hinted, that would go double if you ever intend to use the biner for climbing. It's not worth worrying about.

But as someone who was there, it would really surprise me if we put enough load on that biner to put it in the forced retirement bin. It was not the weak link in our system - after the prussic started slipping, we switched to a smaller diameter prussic. We had a two+ decades old, "retired" piece of webbing at the boat end; a knot in the rope near the boat attachment, and so on.

Wasn't it a screw gate biner? If you screwed it down tight and didn't remember to back off ~1/8 turn, then almost any load would cause it to "lock up" while still under load. That doesn't mean it has exceeded it's load limits; the gate is there because the biner begins to flex under load, even loads that are within it's rated capacity. I would recommend you just subject it to a close physical inspection, making sure all parts now seem to work the same way they did before and that there is no permanent deformation anywhere. Or take it to an experienced climber and have them inspect it. If you're not using this for climbing, then I wouldn't retire unless it "fails" this inspection.

Another option would be to mark this biner, and use it differently - any mechanical system has parts that see less and less of the load depending on where the biner, prussic, or pulley is in the system. Have it be the second or third one you pull out of the bag, not the first one for the main attachment or anchor point. There is just no way this biner could "pass" physical inspection and yet be so damaged that it couldn't/shouldn't still be useful in some capacity.

As a future note, if the "two to one" we added to the Z-drag had used a separate anchor instead of clipping in to the biner that was part of the z-drag, we could have cut the total load that biner saw. But even so, I still think we would have started breaking either the main haul line, or one of the attachments at the boat end, or that small diameter prussic long before damaging that biner. And I should add that the old biner at the boat end saw 100% of the load and was in fine condition; the biner you are talking about saw only 5/6 of the load even with everything clipped in to it.

(Sorry if I just reworded some of the ideas already stated by others, but you guys were saying good stuff and I just wanted to wrap it all up in a single post while adding my "on the scene" observations.)

[happy happy happy]

The biner was not shut proper, if not being a good biner it my of failed.

[happy happy happy]

The biner was not shut proper, if not being a good biner it my of failed.

[Deuce]

I was pretty amazed that my smaller diameter prussiks held. They were just some that I tied up and threw in my PFD pocket last summer. That day inspired me to assemble a pin kit. Haven't advanced past the inspiration stage yet, but I will soon.

[hilbili]

i'm bidding on ropes on ebay. if I win 2 I'll let u know.

[hilbili]

I didn't think it was a goner, but was curious about others experiences due to this being my first and most memorable recovery!

Happy,
I can't remember if I tightened it all the way, but Steve Gabbard told me a SWR participant tightened 1 under a load, and they had to reload it to get it loose.

[hilbili]

As a future note, if the "two to one" we added to the Z-drag had used a separate anchor instead of clipping in to the biner that was part of the z-drag, we could have cut the total load that biner saw. But even so, I still think we would have started breaking either the main haul line, or one of the attachments at the boat end, or that small diameter prussic long before damaging that biner. And I should add that the old biner at the boat end saw 100% of the load and was in fine condition; the biner you are talking about saw only 5/6 of the load even with everything clipped in to )

It (locked biner) made me think about how to rig the anchor with another loop and biner so that the braking prussic would be better positioned and perform more instantaneously, and to have another attatchment point for the 2 to 1.

I think my pulleys are slightly larger than those we used, and built to tend the prussic better.

[Deuce]

i'm bidding on ropes on ebay. if I win 2 I'll let u know.

Dig it.

[hilbili]

to keep it simple, I will pack enough webbing to make more than 1 anchor.

[sig]

Ugh... eBay safety gear.

I know I come at SWR with a background in climbing but I still want to know where my ropes (and other gear) have been and treat them well.

[Cowper]

my question is, how do you decide when to retire the items we used. the rope and anchor straps etc...

After re-reading some of this, I realized you asked a more general question, and I got too focused on just the 'biner.
So here is a more general answer:
For hardware with moving parts ('biners, pulleys, etc.) I would basically look for two things: Any sign of physical deformation or cracks, and that all moving parts still move freely (gates swing, pulleys spin with minimal resistance and no wobble, etc.)
For things like straps and ropes, look for broken strands, damaged sheaths, "burned" or shiny surface appearance, lumps or thinner places in the ropes (possibly indicating stretched or broken strands hidden by the exterior sheath)

I suspect a rope manufacturer or climbing-oriented site will have a better or more detailed answer, you might want to try google and see what you come up with.

[hilbili]

Ugh... eBay safety gear.

I know I come at SWR with a background in climbing but I still want to know where my ropes (and other gear) have been and treat them well.

I'm with you, Bryan, and while most of the ropes I bid on were new odd length end of roll pieces between 70 and 100'.
even new stuff needs inspection. I recently purchased a 70' spectra bag from an outfitter, and long story short, its being warrantied.