What Curtis said. It ain't rocket surgery. Besides, if I didn't trek up into the woods a little there would be more Buffalo Bigfoot sightings.cpresoz wrote:It always amazed me to see the exposed toilet paper blooms and turds just laying there on gravel bars or just into the vegetation and I wondered how lazy and immodest people are. I've always trekked a couple hundred feet or more back into the loamy, vegetative soil, dug a cat hole at the proper depth for maximum decomposition, burned the paper and covered it up and dressed up the area to, hopefully, leave no trace. This is what we do backpacking and spending time in the woods and if boaters did the same, we would minimize the bacterial and visible impact.
I can't stand all the laws so education is our only hope. Somebody long ago told me what to do. We should walk up to others and help set examples.
Start Spreading the $hit News
Re: Start Spreading the $hit News
Last edited by Deuce on Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You come too.
Robert Frost
Robert Frost
- cpresoz
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Re: Start Spreading the $hit News
Or a full moon rising!Deuce wrote:What Curtis said. It ain't rocket surgery. Besides, if I didn't trek up into the woods a little there would be more Buffalo bigfoot sightings.
- cpresoz
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Re: Start Spreading the $hit News
Yeah, you're right about how defensive some get. Stuff like this are best brought up around the campfire over beer and to plant the seed for it to become their idea in the future.prophet wrote:ive had mixed results with thiscpresoz wrote: We should walk up to others and help set examples.
Re: Start Spreading the $hit News
you have to be pretty entertaining to hold the crowd past the digging the cat hole part
Re: Start Spreading the $hit News
Okay, since one of my earlier points in this discussion was brought up...... I will now clarify, expand, and repeat all of my correct points that very few, if any (detriment to your cause not to listen up yall), just to make sure we are all crystal clear.
The Buffalo River is not Pristine. The Buffalo River has been of declining water quality for at least 3 decades now. While the river has been declining in water quality, very few have actually showed up to volunteer for river cleanups, bank stabilization and riparian planting volunteer days. Still yet,of this small group, very few(for the most part) have done anything else to help out the river (like getting marble falls fixed - nice job!).
What are helpful measures to take?
1) build socio-political capital (make friends with county quorum court, and locals). If you are on good terms with a person or group of people - they will at least listen to you.
3) form a respectful watershed organization that uses fact, is inclusive of all stakeholder groups, and looks at all pollution sources.
2) Educate the people once they have decided you are not an environmental whacko, environmentalist, outsider, elitists, and etc. They will appreciate the info and become your friend!
3) Be prepared for opportunities to contribute to the local communities and individuals AND protect water quality.
(A) city of marshall waste water treatment plant with 100's of violations and reason why Bear Creek (tributary to buffalo) has been listed as impaired for a decade now. use some of 60,000K plus legal fund for trying to stop what is completely legal down at C&H, and use the 60K as match on a federal grant for Marshall to improve their WWTP.
(b) use some of 60,000K plus legal fund for trying to stop what is completely legal down at C&H, and use the 60K as match for the NPS to pay employees to go pick up the trash at the park facilities and to pump out the septics at the park-poopers.
(c) use some of 60,000K plus legal fund for trying to stop what is completely legal down at C&H, and use the 60K to educate tourists about LNT ethics.
(d) and so on.
All of those activities will lead to one part of the WQ improvements needed to protect the river long term, and contribute something real to the communities that they can understand if, for example, they do not understand the benefit of the river to their local economy.
The main thing to realize here is that pollution comes from dirt roads, houses, septics in the fractured karst topography, tourists pooping and peeing into the river and its gravel bars, agriculture, forestry, hydrologic modification of the watershed surface (forest to pasture and pasture to city OR permeable surfaces to impermeable surfaces), and on and on.
Did you know that altering the watershed topography to as little as 6% impervious cover can have serious water quality impacts!?
Okay - so the river has been in less than good shape for a long time, and the things that impact it are only going to become more prominent. Let's all understand this point. The river is vulerable to many forms of pollution.
Now, how do you go about working to make good things happen that can lead to the long term protection of the river? You work with people and not against them, you make friends and not enemies, you address all of the real, perceived, and potential future water quality problems that could impact the river.
When you use this approach, known as the watershed approach, you tend not to pi$$ of the 54% of watershed surface area landowners. When you tend to not pi$$ the 54% owners (who are the judge, county quorum court, city council, individual landowners) you can actually make progress. You can sit at a table with this crowd (Ozark Society, Farm Bureau, County Government, NPS, local landowners, outfitters, ACC, The nature Conservancy, Extension Service, Natural Resource Conservation Service, County Conservation District, state government, heck even the C&H farmer).
Once you can all sit at a table and actually communicate, look at all sources of pollution, come up with a plan to address them all - you can start to achieve water quality protection.
Without, well - you are just pi$$in in the wind and actually working very hard and spending lots of money to achieve the opposite of progress. So - the anti hoggers in this case have actually been harming the water quality of the Buffalo rather than helping it. They have angered the locals to the extent that they might not even be able to say hello to them anymore. When, the possibility existed to not only be able to say hello, but to get them to the bargaining table.
Maybe in 50 or 100 years when the river is in even worse shape, and it ain't from the hog farm, maybe then the people that have been so badly mis-informing everyone and stirring up hatred and dislike.........will then understand. Time will tell, and I'd make a pretty hefty wager with anyone willing.
Oh yes, I never meant for direct discharges from marble ford as the problem to the river. I meant direct discharges from people to the river. I did forget to mention all of the nasty things that are found in treated water from wastewater treatment plants that can change the sex of fish, reptiles, and amphibians.......
We live in a dirty world, and the only way we can work to make it better is to be realistic, non-irrational, but instead reasonable. When being reasonable, the emotional attachment that leads to knee jerk reactions that can harm a well intentioned effort to protect something goes away, and many, many other people that we need to work with us will.
So instead of stirring up water quality issues, when really CAFOs, air quality, and animal rights are as much a part of the anti crowd as anything.......
Maybe using the watershed approach, making friends, sticking to water quality, finding common goals, and working to address what everyone can agree on is needed. That is how you protect a watershed and achieve community driven watershed protection.
If you would like to read more about watershed protection, check out the Arkansas watershed steward handbook that was newly created last year: http://ppc.uaex.edu/research_publications/ag1290.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I could go on for a while, but I'll cut it shorter for now.
So
The Buffalo River is not Pristine. The Buffalo River has been of declining water quality for at least 3 decades now. While the river has been declining in water quality, very few have actually showed up to volunteer for river cleanups, bank stabilization and riparian planting volunteer days. Still yet,of this small group, very few(for the most part) have done anything else to help out the river (like getting marble falls fixed - nice job!).
What are helpful measures to take?
1) build socio-political capital (make friends with county quorum court, and locals). If you are on good terms with a person or group of people - they will at least listen to you.
3) form a respectful watershed organization that uses fact, is inclusive of all stakeholder groups, and looks at all pollution sources.
2) Educate the people once they have decided you are not an environmental whacko, environmentalist, outsider, elitists, and etc. They will appreciate the info and become your friend!
3) Be prepared for opportunities to contribute to the local communities and individuals AND protect water quality.
(A) city of marshall waste water treatment plant with 100's of violations and reason why Bear Creek (tributary to buffalo) has been listed as impaired for a decade now. use some of 60,000K plus legal fund for trying to stop what is completely legal down at C&H, and use the 60K as match on a federal grant for Marshall to improve their WWTP.
(b) use some of 60,000K plus legal fund for trying to stop what is completely legal down at C&H, and use the 60K as match for the NPS to pay employees to go pick up the trash at the park facilities and to pump out the septics at the park-poopers.
(c) use some of 60,000K plus legal fund for trying to stop what is completely legal down at C&H, and use the 60K to educate tourists about LNT ethics.
(d) and so on.
All of those activities will lead to one part of the WQ improvements needed to protect the river long term, and contribute something real to the communities that they can understand if, for example, they do not understand the benefit of the river to their local economy.
The main thing to realize here is that pollution comes from dirt roads, houses, septics in the fractured karst topography, tourists pooping and peeing into the river and its gravel bars, agriculture, forestry, hydrologic modification of the watershed surface (forest to pasture and pasture to city OR permeable surfaces to impermeable surfaces), and on and on.
Did you know that altering the watershed topography to as little as 6% impervious cover can have serious water quality impacts!?
Okay - so the river has been in less than good shape for a long time, and the things that impact it are only going to become more prominent. Let's all understand this point. The river is vulerable to many forms of pollution.
Now, how do you go about working to make good things happen that can lead to the long term protection of the river? You work with people and not against them, you make friends and not enemies, you address all of the real, perceived, and potential future water quality problems that could impact the river.
When you use this approach, known as the watershed approach, you tend not to pi$$ of the 54% of watershed surface area landowners. When you tend to not pi$$ the 54% owners (who are the judge, county quorum court, city council, individual landowners) you can actually make progress. You can sit at a table with this crowd (Ozark Society, Farm Bureau, County Government, NPS, local landowners, outfitters, ACC, The nature Conservancy, Extension Service, Natural Resource Conservation Service, County Conservation District, state government, heck even the C&H farmer).
Once you can all sit at a table and actually communicate, look at all sources of pollution, come up with a plan to address them all - you can start to achieve water quality protection.
Without, well - you are just pi$$in in the wind and actually working very hard and spending lots of money to achieve the opposite of progress. So - the anti hoggers in this case have actually been harming the water quality of the Buffalo rather than helping it. They have angered the locals to the extent that they might not even be able to say hello to them anymore. When, the possibility existed to not only be able to say hello, but to get them to the bargaining table.
Maybe in 50 or 100 years when the river is in even worse shape, and it ain't from the hog farm, maybe then the people that have been so badly mis-informing everyone and stirring up hatred and dislike.........will then understand. Time will tell, and I'd make a pretty hefty wager with anyone willing.
Oh yes, I never meant for direct discharges from marble ford as the problem to the river. I meant direct discharges from people to the river. I did forget to mention all of the nasty things that are found in treated water from wastewater treatment plants that can change the sex of fish, reptiles, and amphibians.......
We live in a dirty world, and the only way we can work to make it better is to be realistic, non-irrational, but instead reasonable. When being reasonable, the emotional attachment that leads to knee jerk reactions that can harm a well intentioned effort to protect something goes away, and many, many other people that we need to work with us will.
So instead of stirring up water quality issues, when really CAFOs, air quality, and animal rights are as much a part of the anti crowd as anything.......
Maybe using the watershed approach, making friends, sticking to water quality, finding common goals, and working to address what everyone can agree on is needed. That is how you protect a watershed and achieve community driven watershed protection.
If you would like to read more about watershed protection, check out the Arkansas watershed steward handbook that was newly created last year: http://ppc.uaex.edu/research_publications/ag1290.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I could go on for a while, but I'll cut it shorter for now.
So
"The challenge goes on. There are other lands and rivers, other wilderness areas, to save and to share with all. I challenge you to step forward to protect and care for the wild places you love best"
- Neil Compton
- Neil Compton
- okieboater
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Re: Start Spreading the $hit News
WOW!
Okieboater AKA Dave Reid
We are not sure when childhood ends and adulthood begins.
We are sure that when retirement begins, childhood restarts
We are not sure when childhood ends and adulthood begins.
We are sure that when retirement begins, childhood restarts
Re: Start Spreading the $hit News
Halfton, I agree with almost all you say. However, your statements about the locals are pure fantasy. I have long term, daily, and close interaction with these folks, and your statements and beliefs about them are WAY off base.
Re: Start Spreading the $hit News
Does anyone have the numbers of how many overnight gravel bar campers versus day paddlers in rented canoes in a year. just wondering!
wally
wally
White Tundra with a Green Mohawk on top.
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