New to kayaking

[miket77]

I have owned a canoe for many years. Recently decided to sell it and looking into kayaks. I do a lot of fishing but would also like to go to the mulberry or buffalo to float. I have been looking at the perception prodigy 10. Would like to stay around the $500 range. I am on the heavier side 5'9 240 lbs. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Mike

[Crane]

My bride has a Dagger Wilderness Systems "Blackwater" that is 10.5' , is very stable, which is good for fishing, has good storage, and is in very good shape. She will sell it for $450. If you (or others) are interested call 501-nine 44-4314

[miket77]

Reading the reviews the black water sounds relatively close to what I'm looking for. Can you send me some pictures?

[Crane]

If you would care to buy it, a friend will be headed to NWA this weekend and is willing to deliver it... Just saying:)

[Crane]

It appears we have a deal! Thanks!! And, special thanks to Susan and Mike Beebe who are passing thru the area and can drop it off! Now, that's a plan that works!!

[miket77]

Thank you very much to Susan! She was great for bringing the boat all this way and also gave me some great information about Rendevous. I was hopin to attend but we have a prior commitment I can't get out of. I do have a question though. This is the first kayak I have owned or honestly ever been in. I find it to be very tipsy. I realize that kayaks are made to tip and not completely stable but I kinda expected this one to be more stable. I have watched many videos and the individuals do not seem to wobble when they paddle. Am I doing it all wrong?? This would have been a great thing to learn while at Rendevous...

[fzburk]

Mike,

I've taught kayaking a number of years and your 'observation' about the kayak being tippy is very common.

For some people placing their feet straight out in front proves to be a challenge. When the hips become the stabilizer, then some people tense up and feel very, very tippy.

The trick is to loosen the hips. One way to get a feel for this is to sit in the kayak in relatively shallow water, place the paddle across your lap, then put your arms straight out to your sides, parallel to the surface of the water. Think of making a "T" with your body and arms.

The next step should be done in increments. Keeping your arms straight, wiggle your hips gently. At first you'll only 'wiggle' the boat an inch or so. The idea is to find/feel that the kayak is balanced by keeping your head and shoulders upright while balancing with your hips. Make sure to keep your head still.

From the back imagine making the letter "J" with your arms and spine. As you get more comfortable you can wiggle more aggressively.

If your knees will fit under the sides of the kayak, try gently lifting each knee a little and do the same thing. You'll find that your contact with the kayak makes you feel more stable.

As you get more comfortable you can get more control by counterbalancing with your head. If the kayak is tipping to the left (the left side is lower), then you will place your right ear closer to your right shoulder.

If you can salsa, you can defintely kayak.

Mark

[okieboater]

Elvis lives on in kayaker's hips!

[miket77]

Awesome! Thank you very much for the response. I'm planning on taking it out tomorrow to just get more time in and will do everything you have said. Never knew it took so much balance to boat. All the videos and people I've watched make it seem very effortless.

I am planning on eventually doing some fishing out of it as well. I am just not to that comfort level yet. I will obviously née to get some different equipment being limited on space in the boat. Any and all suggestions on equipment or tip/tricks that could help with this would be greatly appreciated as well.

Again thanks again for all your help!

[Crane]

Mike, The difference between "effortless" and where you are starting is simply a matter of time in the kayak... With practice, it all becomes second nature and "effortless". I'm sure there are folks (Dave Robertson?) in the Sebastian County boating community who would be happy to help out with tips and even, possibly, several hours of basic training, which is all you need to begin to feel comfortable.

[AR-Nimrod]

Mike,

Come to Rec. School if at all possible next June. Lots of good instruction and great people there.

[okieboater]

Depends on just how far you want to go in your kayak from flat water fishing to the white water thrills.

Here is some tips that apply a lot to white water kayaks but work well for flat water boats. I expect that if you get lucky on hooking a big ole large mouth bass, that lake water will turn into white water pretty fast!

ACC Canoe School (more kayaks than canoes lately) and the Rec School a month later have been mentioned and are the best deals around to get instruction and meet other boaters. A lot of other good tips in this thread as well. In the meantime those ACC pool sessions are golden for you and even if you do not get in the water, they are a great place to meet others who will A: want to help you learn and B: work out on the water with you.

However, the more time you spend now in your boat the more comfortable and faster you will be as you increase your skill set. Get your boat outfitted properly and your seat balanced so the boat floats level in the water with you and your gear inside. Do your research and ask questions as you get this done.

Another tip to help your boat help you feel more solid is to practice your boat posture. First get your boat outfitted so it fits your body but is easy to exit from. Always test your outfitting on dry land then with a back up on flat water. Then work on getting four good points of contact with your boat. IE Your butt cheeks, your back to the back band, your hips / thighs to the sides of the kayak and finally the proper foot contact with your foot brace system. You want a firm fit but not restrictive.

Then work on hinging chest forward from your hips a bit with a more or less erect trunk just hinged forward a bit. Be centered in the boat. What this does is put your boat closer to it's center of balance and makes it easier to feel stable in the water. Then you can look where you want to go and perform the paddle stroke needed to get you there. Remember that in almost all situations, a moving boat is more stable than a boat setting still. Think that the bottom of your body is going to work the boat's hull (the Elvis effect) so it stays stable on the water while the top of your body is free to move around and work the paddle. I like to see people smile a lot and stay loose in their posture as a stiff body tells your kayak pony that you do not trust it and it can feel free to more easily flip you off!

Do not waste this last warm weather and water by not getting out on a local lake. I highly recommend you find a buddy to spot you while you practice wet exits or anything else on the water. Soon as you get comfortable knowing how to be safe when the kayak flips, the less tense you will be in the kayak and the more stable the boat will be. Be safe then have fun. You should start out working on wet exits with no spray skirt to get the feel of being underwater down, then move on to a spray skirt. BUT, be sure you practice getting that spray skirt off on dry land until it is automatic and having a boating bud there as you practice wet exits with your spray skirt on. If you get your wet exit down now in warm water, that is a head start for next season. The ACC pool sessions will help you get this wet exit thing down as well.

This year has had some good warm weather boating, but most of our good boating weather includes cooler water and air – sometimes down right cold. Difficult to learn when you are shaking with the cold.

I know the ACC Central Chapter does a lot of pool roll sessions. This is the best way for you to quickly get to know others, find buds to practice with and maybe learn the basics of a roll.


In the meantime, some research tips you can do anytime that will help:

Some ideas on outfitting materials at :
http://kayakoutfitting.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A bunch of tips on kayaking from NRS – some may feature NRS products but that is ok as they do a good job on most of their stuff
http://www.nrs.com/learn/?group=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have a library full of books on kayaks. The best all around theory and practice book I know for canoes and kayaks is Catch Every Eddy, Surf every Wave. Written some time ago, but a book I review every year and for sure before I teach a class. Highly recommend.

http://www.amazon.com/Catch-Every-Eddy- ... every+wave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A video that I highly recommend. Yup, it came out somewhere around 1992 if memory correct but the concepts still work just fine for learning the basics.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Kayakers-Edge ... ford+video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is Kent's web site. Lots of good stuff there. His book on The Kayak Roll is a classic and works as well now as it did when it first came out.

http://whitewatervideo.com/Ford.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I realize you stated that right now you are interested in mostly fishing and flat water boating. Good technique works just as well on flat water as it does on white water.

As always, do your homework and make up your own mind. Have backup when you get on the water even in a pool or flat water lake. But the more time you spend doing good quality time and practice in your boat the better time you will have when you get on any grade of flat or white water.

Be safe, have backup and have fun.

For what it is worth

dave

[Jim Krueger]

Mike,

I have fished the lakes and rivers from that model kayak, and other similar ones for many years. I usually carry two ultra-light spinning rigs so I can have one in use, and one laying on the front deck with the handle stuck under the shock cords. That way I can have one rigged for Bass and the other for Bream or Crappie.
I'm usually a catch&release guy with the Bass, also I really don't care to eat them as well as other fish. When I am keeping fish for the table, I do carry a small, soft-side ice chest on the floor between my legs, it makes it easy put them straight on ice.
Going from using standard tackle boxes in canoes and flat-bottoms, I have adopted using a small plastic bait box with o-ring seal so I can carry the most essential baits and hooks I'm using at the time. It fits real well under or beside my seat where I can get to it. I do carry a more extensive selection of lures, spools of line, tools, etc. in a dry bag that I keep in the back hatch.
Lastly, with most of the river fishing I do anymore, I have pretty well gone to using plastic worms, lizards, and tube jigs on single lead-head hooks. They seem to work very well and I don't hang up nearly as much as the hard baits with treble hooks. Plus I don't tend to stick my self as much
Do consider the Rec. School next year, it will really help you get the most enjoyment and ability with your boat!

Best Regards
Jim

[Marlo Krueger]

I started paddling in a Percecption Acadia (think Titanic that couldn't turn quickly enough to miss the iceberg). Decided with all the down river paddling I do that I wanted to miss the icebergs. Went to Rendevous one year and bought a Dagger Blackwater 10.5. I loved that boat! Once you get it balanced front to back and side to side with you in the boat and all your gear, and spend some time in the boat staying loose and using your hips to keep you balanced, it won't take long before it will seem a lot less tippy than now. It's pretty stable and a good fishing platform.

I have done less fishing in recent years and have moved on to a hybrid Liquid Logic Remix XP10 for most of my paddling, but if I were going fishing tomorrow, I'd haul out the old Blackwater every time. If you are like the rest of us, you may keep your Blackwater for fishing and get another boat for quicker turns on more whitewater streams. No one boat can do it all; you may need two or three.

Hang in there!
Marlo (Jim's wife)

[miket77]

Thank you all so much for the information! Great advice on all levels. I am definitely going to do everything I can to make it to rec school next year. Sounds like it's exactly what I need. To bad it's almost 9 months away. I was really hoping to make it to Rendevous but unfortunately it does not look like I will be able to. Being a restaurant manager makes it difficult to get many weekends off but i know if I'm going to do this right I have to take the time to properly learn. I will most definitely check into the next pool sessions in my area.

I am an avid fisherman but I have always enjoyed white water in my canoe so I know I'll be looking into more serious adventures once I get properly trained. I definitely see another boat or two in my future.

I do have a couple more questions. As of right now I have a standard neoprene life jacket and a standard fiberglass paddle I got at a big box store. Where would you start with upgrading. Is it the paddle or PDF or is there something else that might be more important I'm missing? I have not reviewed the links that were mentioned as of yet I immediately just responded, so this may be covered in those. Also, my wife is much more timid about kayaks and she is looking more into getting a sit on top. I know these are much more stable and she likes that she is not confined in any way if she does roll. My question here is, will she be able to do anything other then flat water? As we all know it makes life much easier if husband and wife are on the same page with things and I know if I can get her more involved that it will give me the freedom to look into more exciting paddling. I hope that does not sound bad. Lol

Again I very much appreciate all of the responses and information. I look forward to getting to know all of you and also look forward to some great times on the water!