USGS says fracking not affecting ground water in AR

[prophet]

i'm glad the study shows no groundwater contamination in a heavily drilled area. that is the only real concern i have about this issue. I havent heard of drinking water being limited due to diversion to fracking around here and i hope no ski-doos have been grounded by low lake levels. i guess the barge owners on the mississippi might need some more of it to ship fertilizer and corn back and forth.
somebody needs to figure out where all the energy we use is going to come from for today (monday the 21st), tomorrow (tuesday the 22nd), the day after that, the day after that, and the day after that. would love to hear the plans
it also might be a good time to discuss everyone's "right" to unlimited energy delivered to their front door for a price they consider fair.

[BHK Okie]

HAHA ! Yeah I can take it ...... and dish out a lot more , I'm holding back . As far as responding to the amount of water used I agree 100% . The size of the fracks put on horizontal shale wells is HUGE . I haven't been on a frack in Ar. in a few years and I'm not familiar with all the logistics but where I'm working in WV and Ohio we process the water and re-use it over and over . I'm not positive on the exact number but if I remember right the return is around 70% . The water returned will be used on close to 30 fracks . I know that's probably not possible everywhere . For the people that don't trust the oil and gas industry , I'm not trying to defend everything they do . 20 years ago there were things that were done that made me want to pull my hair out but it has changed a lot . This post started out to be about whether or not fracking pollutes ground water and it just doesn't . I'm sure there has been something happen somewhere at some time that caused a problem just as there has been in everything else in life . I'm not trying to WIN an argument about the oil and gas industry , I'm just saying you need another cause , ground water contamination from fracking isn't it . As Grant said , what is the answer ? Burn coal to produce electricity ? Dam up all the river we love to paddle to produce hydro-electricity ?

[GN YAKN]

Loving a good and reasonably civil discussion of this issue.

Thanks to the participants for keeping it so. Helps me to understand all sides.

Dave

[Randy Dodson]

I have a friend at work who's property is in ruins due to a frack waste water pond overflowing and flowing onto his property. Some of his livestock started dying and he noticed dead fish floating on the top of his large pond. EPA and Ar Game and Fish came out, which resulted in substantial biological and chemical studies performed on his acreage. He has been told not to eat any fish from that pond for the next 20 years. He doesn't even care about what he may be awarded after his lawsuit is settled, he's just sick about what's happened to his land.

There's more to this than just what happens DURING the fracking process.

Not to mention the methane produced from the whole thing....enough for a woman in PA to light the tap water from her kitchen faucet and it actually burns.

[cpresoz]

Apparently it's too early to make a determination that fracking doesn't impact groundwater absolutely. The article referenced at the beginning of the thread states that "Results from this study represent a timeframe relatively early in the gas-production life cycle, and any contaminants released during production activities may not have had sufficient time to reach the sampled wells. As such, groundwater-quality data from this study describe current conditions at the date of sampling and do not address potential legacy problems . . ."
We should try to avoid hyperbole at either extreme of the discourse, and wait for the science to tell out. The study at the least lays out ground work for future followup and ends with ". . . if any (problems) should occur in the future; however, these data provide a baseline range and variation of geochemistry for groundwater in the study area, which can be used to assess future potential changes to groundwater quality in the area of gas production from the Fayetteville Shale.”

[Yarbrough]

Lets put this in perspective. According to U S Energy Information Administration the fracking that has been done so far has produced 92 years of natural gas on tap. I have heard 250-400 years worth of untapped natural gas being thrown around. This is all domestic and mostly on private land. This is incredible!!! Happy happy joy joy.

We didn't have to go to a foreign country. We are not having to buy this from people that don't like us. We didn't have to go to war. We didn't have to make political concessions to other countries. We are not having to strip mine like the tar sands up in Fort McMurray. We didn't have to create a new wildly expensive technology either. We are actually getting this on the cheap.

My guess is that natural gas vehicles are the future. Cleaner emissions and the engines last a lot longer on CNG than on gasoline. Most people already have natural gas lines going to their house and with the kit you can fill up your vehicle at home. Older vehicles can be converted to run on natural gas so you don't have to replace what you already got to get the benefit. Depending on your ride some get better miles per gallon. Plus plus plus it is less expensive.

I too have seen the videos of people in CO and PA lighting their well water on fire. Sorry. Surface damages as ugly as they are right now don't last forever. Oklahoma and Texas prove that after 20 years or so the worst case scenarios are hard find. The grass starts to grow again and the ponds have fish that are safe to eat. Bad but not the end of the world. As for the water demands that fracking needs? Again it is temporary and the energy last longer.

Personally I am very happy that the ole USA has this resource. It makes life easier for all of us. My only question is that in a country where we hear energy crisis being touted on a daily basis where is the celebration? When did the fireworks go off? Where is the game show host holding up a huge check written in glitter saying "100 years of cheap and clean energy" awarded to America?

Just my opinion on the subject.

Yarbrough

[mgood]

Lets put this in perspective. According to U S Energy Information Administration the fracking that has been done so far has produced 92 years of natural gas on tap. I have heard 250-400 years worth of untapped natural gas being thrown around. This is all domestic and mostly on private land. This is incredible!!! Happy happy joy joy.

We didn't have to go to a foreign country. We are not having to buy this from people that don't like us. We didn't have to go to war. We didn't have to make political concessions to other countries. We are not having to strip mine like the tar sands up in Fort McMurray. We didn't have to create a new wildly expensive technology either. We are actually getting this on the cheap.

My guess is that natural gas vehicles are the future. Cleaner emissions and the engines last a lot longer on CNG than on gasoline. Most people already have natural gas lines going to their house and with the kit you can fill up your vehicle at home. Older vehicles can be converted to run on natural gas so you don't have to replace what you already got to get the benefit. Depending on your ride some get better miles per gallon. Plus plus plus it is less expensive.

I too have seen the videos of people in CO and PA lighting their well water on fire. Sorry. Surface damages as ugly as they are right now don't last forever. Oklahoma and Texas prove that after 20 years or so the worst case scenarios are hard find. The grass starts to grow again and the ponds have fish that are safe to eat. Bad but not the end of the world. As for the water demands that fracking needs? Again it is temporary and the energy last longer.

Personally I am very happy that the ole USA has this resource. It makes life easier for all of us. My only question is that in a country where we hear energy crisis being touted on a daily basis where is the celebration? When did the fireworks go off? Where is the game show host holding up a huge check written in glitter saying "100 years of cheap and clean energy" awarded to America?

Just my opinion on the subject.

Yarbrough

Let's not forget the original discussion in this thread- it's not a celebration of US energy, but rather observations on how that energy should responsibly be retracted/managed. I know it's nice to think of US energy independence, and I have some friends who, overnight, made more than I, and my entire family, will make in my entire life off of mineral rights, BUT I think that most people will agree that nature resources should be responsibly removed (the dispute is over the word responsibly).

I'm still not completely on one side of this discussion or the other- I see the need for jobs, the huge amounts of profit to be made, but at the same time I recognize that fracking is not without its problems and may not be the golden beacon some hope for it to be.

I think that it is too early to tell what problems may arise- fair enough of a statement?

[maggiepowell]

Wow, Yarbrough... The surface damage only lasts 20 years... are you kidding me? That is one of the most callous statements I have ever heard regarding the environment. Just because the land/water eventually returns to normal is no reason why we should disregard the damage fracking could do to it. 20 years is a good chunk of a persons lifetime, especially if the damage is done to your own property. And, what if the damage occurs in a public area that prevents public use for 20 or so years? I'm betting you would be pretty pissed if the gas company damaged your favorite paddling spot, even if it is "temporary".

As for the water it uses, water is not an infinite resource on this planet and once the water is used for fracking, it is no longer potable. And although water may not be scarce in our life time; although really it already is at times, we need to have some for future generations. And, as the global temps continue to rise, we are using more and more water to cool us off and water our crops.

I have never understood how people and corporations can turn a blind eye to the nature they ruin. The planet needs trees and plants to work properly, but of course all the coporations think of is their current profits with no forethought about the future.

[BHK Okie]

It's been on the news the last couple of days that Chesapeake has agreed to let the EPA do "extensive testing" on their fracking . As was reported , Chesapeake would not agree to this unless they already knew the results . Maybe these results will ease some of the concerns posted here ............. or maybe no amount of evidence will ? Depends on each individual and whether or not facts and evidence matters . OR maybe it will prove me wrong ? IF so I will definately post an appology here .

[Cowper]

I have thorougly mixed emotions about this issue. I care deeply about the environment, and don't like it when I see streams that ran relatively clear in my lifetime (even after all but the heaviest rains) running chocolate brown or red-clay color after a rain, and gravel beds that were once clean take on a layer of silt. Sometimes this is due to the construction and other activities associated with the natural gas industry in our state. A lot of times it is due to other causes, ranging from road construction, to new subdivisions or housing, to logging, to farmers clearing new fields, basically, the whole range of human endeavors.

But I hate that people are dying in foreign lands (on both sides), so that I can enjoy a lifestyle second to none in the world. So there is a certain poetic justice involved if some of the envionmental damage is occurring right here in my back yard, in the land of those who use most of this energy, not somewhere far away, out of sight and out of mind. It also gives us an opportunity to monitor it, to watch for those "bad players" who don't follow best management practices that minimize the damage. And to fight for change when better practices are available and not being used due to cost or for whatever reason.

We reap the benefits; we should pay some of the costs.

Now, get out there, keep your eyes open, and if you find something that is causing damage, report it and fight the good fight to force compliance with applicable regulations, and to strenthen those regulations when that is needed to reduce the damage to the minimum possible.

[Randy Dodson]

Yarbrough, I told my friend everything you had to say about the subject. He's okay about the state of his acreage now. He just didn't realize that everything would be okay on his property by the time he turns 70. :myday"

[prophet]

that's terrible for that guy. hope they can remediate any longterm issues.

while we're waiting on the next USGS study, to help them out can we all compile lists of chemicals we've dumped into sewers over the years?
i know some of Ft. smith's system is over 100 years old and a superbowl tsunami is coming up

[George Locke]

Watch "Gasland" then watch "Fracknation".

Jngl Btr

[BHK Okie]

I've had 9 surgeries 100's of Dr visits . I'm blind in my left eye & have a very damaged right eye because of a Dr . How many people think we need to ban Dr.s ? .. .....me neither ! I'm sure Dr. Yaney will agree on this one even if it hurts . I'm not the only one that has been hurt by him - I know for a FACT , but I know for a fact he has helped people also . I didn't try to ban all Dr.'s & I didn't try to ban or sue him . I would like everyone to know the facts & make their own choice but I don't rule the world & neither do you ! PLEASE take a step back & look @ the big picture . Solve the worlds problems then post & share with us ! Nothing in this world is perfect . If you have a better answer please share it with me . Maybe I'm in a position to make it work ? ........ Or continue to whine with no answer ??????

[Roger]

I've had 9 surgeries 100's of Dr visits . I'm blind in my left eye & have a very damaged right eye because of a Dr . How many people think we need to ban Dr.s ? .. .....me neither ! I'm sure Dr. Yaney will agree on this one even if it hurts . I'm not the only one that has been hurt by him - I know for a FACT , but I know for a fact he has helped people also . I didn't try to ban all Dr.'s & I didn't try to ban or sue him . I would like everyone to know the facts & make their own choice but I don't rule the world & neither do you ! PLEASE take a step back & look @ the big picture . Solve the worlds problems then post & share with us ! Nothing in this world is perfect . If you have a better answer please share it with me . Maybe I'm in a position to make it work ? ........ Or continue to whine with no answer ??????

What does all this have to do with the original post regarding the fracking process?

Evidence now says that the shale formations produce high volumes and then fall off rather quickly. Check the Bakken Field. Just like a river after rain. Only this is a one-time deal. At what cost? Lots of fresh water and surface damage. Yeah, there are exceptions as in any case.

As for energy independence, we're the world's leading exporter of petroluem products. And then we import to meet our needs? What's the answer to our energy problems? Build the Keystone Pipeline to pipe tar oil from Canada to the Gulf Coast to be processed and shipped overseas? Build coal-burning plants in SE Arkansas to send power to Texas?

Nationalize the energy industry or regulate it more since it is such a critical part of our nation's existence.
Any arguments with that?


Well, if it's a national security problem then we should not let private business control it.