Which boat (out of 2) is better for this area?

[TrentF]

Im new to class 3/4 and I have been looking for a boat that would fit me for Arkansas and Southern Missouri creeks, streams, and rivers. I have narrowed it down to either a Liquid Logic Stomper or a Dagger Mamba. I have sat (not paddled) in both and feel comfortable in both of them. Also will be doing occassional overnight trips.
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks and I look forward to paddling with the club!

[tomOzarkVideo]

Either boat would be great. How "new to class3/4" are you?

[TrentF]

Very New. As in only floated class 3 maybe twive. Never have rolled and planning on
Joining pool sessions this winter as well as go to the annual whitewater clinic.

[Cowper]

I've paddled a Stomper 80 only very briefly, and have not yet enjoyed the Mamba Creeker 8.1. I agree with the earlier comment, "either would be great". FWIW, after paddling the Stomper for a very brief demo, I decided it was good, but not different enough from my then-current boat to justify trading; then later tried a Shiva and liked it enough to get that. But due to limited water in State, I can't give a true "long term" owners report yet, I can only say I still like it so far. But since you've narrowed it down already I won't say any more about that because bringing in more options just confuses the issue.

If you go out to read others reviews on the Internet, just be aware that the "Stomper" is a new boat name, so any review you see is valid for that boat. In contrast, the Mamba was "redesigned", so some of the reviews you read might be for the "old" version, while others will be for the "new" version. Just make sure you focus on only the reviews for the new version, unless you are buying used. I'm sure you probably know this, but often the first few reviews on boats are written by "team" or "sponsored" boaters who get the new models before the general public, so expect to find a few glowing reviews of ANY boat you look at. Read between the lines and consider as many reviews/opinions as possible.

Looking at the specs, those boats are VERY similar in length, width, volume, and recommended weight ranges. There will be subtle differences in how each handles based on shape, but which one you like better will likely depend on your personal preferences, there won't be one "right" answer that says one is clearly "better" than the other. If you can demo both on the water, even just in a pool, you should do it. If you can't, then look over the outfitting and see if one is slightly more comfortable or slightly easier to adjust. Or just has easier features for removing the back-band so that you can get your camping gear in behind the seat - if you really want to do overnighters, that could be a big factor for you. From what I can recall, I believe I like the outfitting of the LL boats a little better, but I can't swear I've closely inspected this year's Dagger so you have to take that with a grain of salt. I also like the "feel" of the LL plastic - it just seems a bit harder to me, which I feel would make for better boofing and sliding over rocks. Others may disagree.

I have never done an overnighter out of a creek boat; I always switch to a canoe for that. All of our local III and IV water runs are day runs; overnighters in this area tend to be on Class I and II stuff where even if your canoeing skills are less advanced than your kayaking skills, you'll be just fine in a rented, borrowed, or "bought very used" canoe. Not to say you couldn't start out on Richland Creek and continue down the Buffalo or on the Hailstone and continue down the Buffalo below Ponca, but logistics and shuttle just generally don't make that an easy option. And you'd be paddling a loaded creek boat on the good stuff (less fun than running empty), and then paddling a sluggish creek boat on the Class I and II stuff with pools (less fun than running that in a longer boat). Also, if you choose a larger model to get the extra capacity for your overnight gear, then the boat will feel "too big" for you when running really pushy whitewater. Finally, since most of your storage is behind the seat, it is hard to get the boat trimmed out properly if you put 30# or more of gear in the back end of the boat - it is not nearly as easy as with a canoe were you can split the gear with some in front of you and some behind. I recommend you make your decision mostly on which boat you think you will like most for creeking and day trips.

[BHK Okie]

I have a Stomper 80 & will be at the Jones Center on the 12th for roll practice if you'd like to try it out .

[TrentF]

I have a Stomper 80 & will be at the Jones Center on the 12th for roll practice if you'd like to try it out .

I may just have to take you up on that offer. I have still not yet decided which one I like better. I think I will probably end up with the Stomper simply because of the Badass outfitting and the color schemes I like a lot better than Daggers. I will most likely be there on the 12th but not certain. I look forward to meeting the group so Im going to try my best to make it!

[tomOzarkVideo]

I recommend you make your decision mostly on which boat you think you will like most for creeking and day trips.

+1

[turboturtle]

Just what Tom quoted from Cowper.
And I'd like to ad that in bygone years, everything was paddled in much larger and longer boats. Although much easier to carve stuff up these days with the smallest and shortest of yaks. You could go old school and get a really old large boat like a Perception Mirage or Corsica series boats, and small it up for a creek boat. Go old, and maybe get both for roughly the same price as one you are looking at now. I'm seeing some old school stuff here for a couple hundred. I picked up an old Noah AQ for $75.00 some time back. Now that's some old school cool right there. Check with Byrds Adventure Center, as they sell off their older Buffalo canoes for reasonable prices later in the spring. Get your Yak now, and save till spring for a canoe for the camp floats. Then you can carry enough crap to camp like a king.
Once your skill level gets up to par in a kayak, handling a packed canoe down "some" class Three becomes rather easy. I started in a canoe, but was always looking for more. I had been intrigued since 72' when I saw the first Olympic kayak slalom races on TV. I picked up my first kayak 23 years ago, and found what I had been looking for.
I should also let you know that once you have owned a couple or three boats, your likely be able to tell what the potential is of most any boat you consider by its design.
They're are so many more choices then when I shopped out my first 120+gal. 13+ft class Two downriver fiberglass yak. Live long and paddle hard.

aka Bob