ABS canoe repair and outfitting questions

[RiverRatRon]

I was wondering what is the best way to patch the bottom of an old Blue Hole canoe? It has about a 6 inch diameter spot where the exterior vinyl has worn away and the green ABS plastic is exposed.I have used fiberglass patches in the past and they work ok but but crack and peel after a while. Also, has anyone ever outfitted an Sunburst II for tandem paddling? Is there anywhere to find the old small seats that Blue Hole canoes used to have in them? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Ron

[canoe]

If you are seeing gray, that's probably not ABS. All ABS I've repaired is a yellowish white. Maybe the exterior paint has worn off down to the Vinyl(which is gray), in which case spray Plastic paint will cover it up.If the vinyl is truely worn thru, you should have a definite layer of plastic a few mm thick that is delaminated from the ABS core. dale

[canoe]

sorry, substitute gray with green(I'm colorblind) dale

[Jim Krueger]

Ron,

'Painterbob' is one of our club members who has had quite a lot of experience repairing canoes. He often recommends West Systems 'G-Flex' epoxy in the repair of canoes with similar problems as yours. Bob would also be a good one to ask about the seats. I have a 17' Blue Hole Sunburst and would only guess that even if you could find some seats out of one of these tandem canoes, they wouldn't fit in the shorter Sunburst II solo boat without some modifications.
As much as I've loved my Blue Hole, and still think they are the 'Cadillac' of WW canoes, I've never thought the seats were very comfortable. The aluminum seat frames are bomber but the little black plastic seats are too small to suit me.
Recently I spent considerable time to upgrade this part of the seat, expanding the size with plastic cutting board material and padding with minicell foam. Email me for pictures sometime if you like, I'm pretty pleased with how they turned out.
A final thought on the hull repair. I think products like the G-Flex will work much better because the repair can remain flexible. In my opinion, the main reason some repairs peel off and fail is because folks are using the fiberglass
repair materials from Wal-mart, Auto supply stores, etc. The problem is these are polyester epoxies rather than marine epoxies.

Best Regards
Jim

jm.krueger@att.net

[Eric Esche]

I have found that a kevlar felt patch made with marine epoxy resin on a properly cleaned and roughed up surface sticks for a long time. I have one on my Mad River Endurall that was applied in 1974 that is still going strong with a lot of use and abuse.

Eric Esche

[Lupe]

Recently I spent considerable time to upgrade this part of the seat, expanding the size with plastic cutting board material and padding with minicell foam. Email me for pictures sometime if you like, I'm pretty pleased with how they turned out.

Jim should be pretty pleased with how they turned out! I got to see Jim's handiwork in creating these new seats recently and they look 100% professional. Really impressive! Cutting board + minicell foam might not sound beautiful, but trust me his finished product is SWEET!

Jim helped me replace a broken thwart on my canoe, and saved me from probably ruining the replacement thwart and from drilling new unnecessary holes in my gunnels. I went to Jim thinking I could really use the help, and I left KNOWING that I had made a very wise decision to ask for his help! Thank you again so much!

Back on topic: another resource for the original poster regarding ABS repair, is Paul Shepherd. I think he's used the gflex epoxy as well with good success. I used some to patch a very minor interior spot where the vinyl had pulled away to expose ABS...but it was so minor that I don't feel it's enough experience to comment on! Good luck!

[Jim Krueger]

Heather,

Thank you so much for your kind comments! I thoroughly enjoyed working on the canoe with you, and I think we got that thwart fixed well. On the few occassions I've worked on other boats, for other people, It makes me apperciate all the more you're having the forethought to have a replacement thwart, and more than enough quality hardware we might need to complete the job
I hope the repair will do well for the long run, and I certainly enjoyed our time to just visit! Our dog 'Blackie' would like you to come back again soon so he can have another go at eating the tires off your car... Thanks again!


Best Regards
Jim

[Cowper]

I have a 17' Blue Hole Sunburst and would only guess that even if you could find some seats out of one of these tandem canoes, they wouldn't fit in the shorter Sunburst II solo boat without some modifications.

I like “outside the box” thinking when it comes to boats, so I’m interested in more of your thinking on this project. Since the Sunburst II was designed as a solo boat, it may not perform to its full potential or in a manner that you would really like if loaded with two full-size adults. If overloaded, boats lose a lot of their performance characteristics and stability typically suffers. This may not apply to your project; for example, I don’t know if you’re getting the boat ready for two youth paddlers, or a medium sized adult with a small child, or some combination that would remain within a good weight range for this hull design.

With that in mind, before you invest two much effort in installing two seats, I’d suggest putting the boat on the water, with no outfitting, but with the future paddlers just kneeling on their haunches or sitting on milk crates or a small ice chest, to verify that you’re happy with how the boat performs with two folks in it. Does it still feel stable, can you paddle it straight and make it turn the way you would like for it to? You’ll probably be able to verify that you’re happy or not happy with 5 or 10 minutes on any flatwater – just paddle the boat around a little and try leaning it a little to see how stable it is or isn’t. Make sure the paddlers are at about the same height off the bottom as where they will be with your finished outfitting; seat height makes a big difference on how stable a boat feels.

On outfitting, are you wanting two seats? Since we’re talking about a WW boat, I could visualize either two saddles where you kneel 100% of the time, or two seats with knee pads and thigh straps to allow kneeling just when going through the rapids on a pool-drop river or stream. If you are going the seat route, then I would say that I’ve made some very passable aluminum thwarts (which could also be ½ of a seat) by simply buying larger diameter aluminum tubing at places like Lowe’s or Home Depot, cutting to the desired length, and then carefully squeezing down the ends until flat with a vise or even just Vise grips. But the easiest thing would probably be to find some seats you like in another brand of canoe – they don’t have to be an exact fit, as long as they are longer than where you want to put them in your boat. Just cut off the extra length and drill new holes to allow attachment to your gunnels. Measure carefully, and cut a little long so that you have to “stretch” the gunnels apart just a little bit to get them into place. It would be far better to have to make a second or third cut adjusting the length, than to cut it too short on the first attempt and have to buy a new seat.

[RiverRatRon]

Wellll,,I am about a 200lb fellow and my girlfriend is about 150 ish. So ,it may be interesting paddling. I've owned a Dagger Caper and a Dagger Caption in the past. I loved the Caper for tandem paddling and the Caption was pretty cool also.Just looking at the bottom of the boat;(and looks are definately deceiving) it reminds me of a Caption more than a Caper.But, I like your idea about taking it to a local pond or easy creek for a test drive before I invest too much time into converting it into a tandem boat.I would like to find some old small Blue Hole seats just to keep that Vintage Look about it plus I like getting off of my knees some between rapids.The suggestion about getting some aluminum tubing from Lowes and making my own seats is cool also. Thanks for the G-Flex epoxy idea also.At the very worst; I bought an old Blue Hole Sunburst II in pretty fair shape with an old plastic Perception saddle in it for 275 bucks; not too bad. But, I dont really need another solo boat as I already have an Mohawk Probe 12 and a Madriver Outrage.

[RiverRatRon]

Well, we installed some seats in the bluehole sunburst II and took it on a local cypress creek.I must say that the boat performed well as a tandem boat.It reminded me a lot of paddling a Dagger Caption.I cant wait to get it on some whitewater.That will be the real test but so far;I am very pleased.